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CUE99T



Member Since: 02 Oct 2011
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 779

Scotland 

Bill wrote:


Been keeping my eye on the Ford , taking orders now BUT you can’t see one . Lump of a car 390 mile range . Mustang.



My mate is fairly well connected in Ford, let me ask if theres anyway to see one.... all smug in my new plug!

2021 Westminster Black D300
2013 Vogue SE - gone
Some Porsche Cayenne guff pretending to be a 4x4!!
2006 Vogue
2004 Vogue
2001 Vogue

Post #568836 3rd Oct 2020 10:54pm
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mikef



Member Since: 30 Jan 2013
Location: Bucks
Posts: 82

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Zermatt Silver

jackcramerr wrote:
I always wondered how P400e feels like to drive. 2.0 seems small engine plus when the charge is depleted.


I took delivery of a new L405 RR P400e recently after 3 yrs with a L494 RRS SDV8. The driving experience is a mixed bag so far for me compared to the SDV8. At slow speeds and assuming the car has charge remaining, it is a very serene relaxing drive because the car is mainly in EV mode and even when the charge is zero, the car still drives in hybrid mode (according to the EV display) most of the time and still delivers a very quiet drive. There are two things I don't like. The throttle response is slow from rest although once moving the electric motor provides reasonable shove and the brake pedal feel is inconsistent, I guess due to the regen

When you want to accelerate faster, unless you are very light on the accelerator pedal, the petrol engine cuts in but providing you don't press the pedal too hard, the petrol engine remains relatively subdued. At constant motorway speeds, obviously the petrol engine is running nearly all the time but again it remains relatively quiet and doesnt detract from the drive

The problem comes when the you want brisk acceleration and press the accelerator pedal more firmly. The petrol engine then has to rev hard, becomes quite raucous and it is at that point that you feel this is not how driving a RR should be. I think the L-R engineers have done a good job in terms of suppressing NVH from the engine but there's no hiding the fact that it is a 4 cyl lump. And then there is another issue. If you have battery charge left, the system goes into Boost mode in which the battery and petrol engine together deliver their full 400hp or so and the car actually accelerates satisfyingly briskly. However when there is no charge, there is only the puny petrol engine delivering any power and the acceleration is significantly slower. This can be a problem if you go for an overtake because you never quite know how much power youre going to get

Having said this, the P400e is certainly delivering on economy. I installed fast chargers at home and work and most of my 22 mile commute is done in EV mode which means that I'm getting 100mpg+ sometimes on my commute (according to the L-R Remote app). In contrast on longer journeys I'm lucky to see 25mpg but overall so far I'm averaging about 44mpg which is considerably better than the average of 27mpg I achieved with the RRS SDV8

So am I regretting buying the P400e? The contract hire rate was significantly less than the D300 version (I guess because the residuals are higher), the VED rates are much lower and the fuel consumption is lower. Overall I'm saving my company about £3k a year so from that point of view I don't regret it. Do I miss the SDV8 engine? Yes, I sure do

I think I agree that L-R have missed a trick not installing a 6 cyl petrol or diesel engine in the P400e. I test drove the Cayenne e-hybrid and that is a very engaging car to drive because of it's 3 litre petrol engine (shame about the pathetic 250mm wading depth though). I just hope that L-R come out with PHEV models in the future featuring 6 cyl engines because the 4 cyl engine doesnt really cut it in a RR

PS Another thing that is driving me slightly nuts on the L405 is the lack of any space to conveniently store sunglasses. The old L322 had that excellent sunglasses holder above the mirror. Shame on L-R for not carrying that over to the L405. Anyone got any solution for this?

Post #568967 5th Oct 2020 1:13pm
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adara



Member Since: 09 Dec 2008
Location: Eastern Europe
Posts: 736

Romania 2019 Range Rover Vogue 2.0 PHEV Santorini Black

I agree with your impressions and also I, too, was missing the sunglasses holder from the L322, so I replaced the driver's useless handle with this:




It can be bought quite cheap here:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3267099422...4c4d7bTf7q 2019 Vogue P400e

Post #568969 5th Oct 2020 1:40pm
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stan
Site Moderator


Member Since: 13 Jul 2010
Location: a moderate moderated moderator moderating moderately in moderation
Posts: 34871

United Kingdom 

a similar holder but a few quid more and its from the UK..

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Auto-Accessorie...Sw--hdDH4P


 ... - .- -.




click link for ,

FORUM WIKI

HOW TO Ǝꓕ∀ꓕOꓤ PICS

workshop manual downloads are in our wiki

.

Post #568971 5th Oct 2020 1:49pm
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northernmonkeyjones



Member Since: 24 Mar 2012
Location: derby
Posts: 8479

United Kingdom 2016 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Santorini Black

I just hook them into the little plastic loop on the top left of the sun visor. Seems quite convenient... There is nothing that can't be fixed with a hammer😜😜
FFRR 4.4 SDV8 Autobiography Santorini Black.
Fiat 500x 1.4 multiair Lounge 2015
2010 LR D4 Commercial 2.7 TDV6

Post #568979 5th Oct 2020 4:51pm
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Bill



Member Since: 18 Nov 2017
Location: Essex / Normandy
Posts: 1157

United Kingdom 

CUE99T wrote:
Bill wrote:


Been keeping my eye on the Ford , taking orders now BUT you can’t see one . Lump of a car 390 mile range . Mustang.



My mate is fairly well connected in Ford, let me ask if theres anyway to see one....


Yes thanks; the dealer was well up to a JLR stealership, couldn’t care less.... Filters are in fact so good that in certain circumstances, when the ambient air is already polluted, a diesel car will tend to extract more particles from the air than it emits. Emissions Analytics worked with........etc etc

He who dies with the most toys wins...

Post #568980 5th Oct 2020 5:13pm
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mikef



Member Since: 30 Jan 2013
Location: Bucks
Posts: 82

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Zermatt Silver

Thanks to stan and adara for the sunglasses holder tips

Post #568995 5th Oct 2020 7:29pm
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CUE99T



Member Since: 02 Oct 2011
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 779

Scotland 

Bill wrote:
CUE99T wrote:
Bill wrote:


Been keeping my eye on the Ford , taking orders now BUT you can’t see one . Lump of a car 390 mile range . Mustang.



My mate is fairly well connected in Ford, let me ask if theres anyway to see one....


Yes thanks; the dealer was well up to a JLR stealership, couldn’t care less....


Leave that with me, I'll ask tomorrow. Is it the Mustang thats electric? all smug in my new plug!

2021 Westminster Black D300
2013 Vogue SE - gone
Some Porsche Cayenne guff pretending to be a 4x4!!
2006 Vogue
2004 Vogue
2001 Vogue

Post #569001 5th Oct 2020 10:50pm
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CUE99T



Member Since: 02 Oct 2011
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 779

Scotland 

mikef wrote:


I took delivery of a new L405 RR P400e recently after 3 yrs with a L494 RRS SDV8. The driving experience is a mixed bag so far for me compared to the SDV8. At slow speeds and assuming the car has charge remaining, it is a very serene relaxing drive because the car is mainly in EV mode and even when the charge is zero, the car still drives in hybrid mode (according to the EV display) most of the time and still delivers a very quiet drive. There are two things I don't like. The throttle response is slow from rest although once moving the electric motor provides reasonable shove and the brake pedal feel is inconsistent, I guess due to the regen

When you want to accelerate faster, unless you are very light on the accelerator pedal, the petrol engine cuts in but providing you don't press the pedal too hard, the petrol engine remains relatively subdued. At constant motorway speeds, obviously the petrol engine is running nearly all the time but again it remains relatively quiet and doesnt detract from the drive

The problem comes when the you want brisk acceleration and press the accelerator pedal more firmly. The petrol engine then has to rev hard, becomes quite raucous and it is at that point that you feel this is not how driving a RR should be. I think the L-R engineers have done a good job in terms of suppressing NVH from the engine but there's no hiding the fact that it is a 4 cyl lump. And then there is another issue. If you have battery charge left, the system goes into Boost mode in which the battery and petrol engine together deliver their full 400hp or so and the car actually accelerates satisfyingly briskly. However when there is no charge, there is only the puny petrol engine delivering any power and the acceleration is significantly slower. This can be a problem if you go for an overtake because you never quite know how much power youre going to get

Having said this, the P400e is certainly delivering on economy. I installed fast chargers at home and work and most of my 22 mile commute is done in EV mode which means that I'm getting 100mpg+ sometimes on my commute (according to the L-R Remote app). In contrast on longer journeys I'm lucky to see 25mpg but overall so far I'm averaging about 44mpg which is considerably better than the average of 27mpg I achieved with the RRS SDV8

So am I regretting buying the P400e? The contract hire rate was significantly less than the D300 version (I guess because the residuals are higher), the VED rates are much lower and the fuel consumption is lower. Overall I'm saving my company about £3k a year so from that point of view I don't regret it. Do I miss the SDV8 engine? Yes, I sure do

I think I agree that L-R have missed a trick not installing a 6 cyl petrol or diesel engine in the P400e. I test drove the Cayenne e-hybrid and that is a very engaging car to drive because of it's 3 litre petrol engine (shame about the pathetic 250mm wading depth though). I just hope that L-R come out with PHEV models in the future featuring 6 cyl engines because the 4 cyl engine doesnt really cut it in a RR




And that is the exact same position the Outlander left me in, albeit not as luxury vehicle, it also felt underpowered when no electric was left, which in the winter was always out after about 18 miles not the 28/30 it would suggest!! lol

I just dont get why Porsche can do it but JLR cant!! The 2.0 is just too noisey when no electric is done!

And certainly isnt going to deliver the 400hp and 0-60 figures it claims surely!! all smug in my new plug!

2021 Westminster Black D300
2013 Vogue SE - gone
Some Porsche Cayenne guff pretending to be a 4x4!!
2006 Vogue
2004 Vogue
2001 Vogue

Post #569002 5th Oct 2020 10:53pm
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adara



Member Since: 09 Dec 2008
Location: Eastern Europe
Posts: 736

Romania 2019 Range Rover Vogue 2.0 PHEV Santorini Black

You're welcome, be sure to select the correct holder colour, in my case it was ivory... 2019 Vogue P400e

Post #569007 6th Oct 2020 5:33am
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Bill



Member Since: 18 Nov 2017
Location: Essex / Normandy
Posts: 1157

United Kingdom 

CUE99T wrote:


Leave that with me, I'll ask tomorrow. Is it the Mustang thats electric?


Yes....

https://www.ford.co.uk/cars/mustang-mach-e Filters are in fact so good that in certain circumstances, when the ambient air is already polluted, a diesel car will tend to extract more particles from the air than it emits. Emissions Analytics worked with........etc etc

He who dies with the most toys wins...

Post #569530 11th Oct 2020 6:05pm
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Bill



Member Since: 18 Nov 2017
Location: Essex / Normandy
Posts: 1157

United Kingdom 

Vogue wrote:
JLR are muppets - they just lost the best selling attraction of the RR - if they wanted to go down that route why not a hybrid version of the V8 Diesel - now they are just another run of the mill same old same old small displacement V6 - a RR is a luxury 4x4 and needs a decent unstressed, quiet, powerful and smooth engine.

It’s the V8’s that separated it from the everyday 4x4’s and dates right back to the launch of the vehicle in the early 1970’s

A RR should be without compromise - not a watered down that will do because every other maker is putting in silly small engines.

Sorry LR, but a Range Rover without a V8 is not a RR - you have just destroyed the whole ethos of the vehicle - thank god there is still a 5.0 V8 - just !


Mods. This needed to be said again .....

I’m not sure but wasn’t it an eu regulation that demanded that car producers balanced their portfolio of lumpy proper cars like a FFRR with a fairy car ...so on average they hit a reasonably low level of output basically knackering the big car producers such as JLR

So.... for good or bad as we are out if the eu, can we have a sensible Diesel engine back again?

DONT FORGET WHAT IT SAYS IN THE SIGNATURE BELOW.... Filters are in fact so good that in certain circumstances, when the ambient air is already polluted, a diesel car will tend to extract more particles from the air than it emits. Emissions Analytics worked with........etc etc

He who dies with the most toys wins...

Post #569532 11th Oct 2020 6:12pm
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ilard



Member Since: 21 Oct 2012
Location: London
Posts: 698

United Kingdom 

It's progress? I don't want to lecture, but I do want to remind not to focus on the spec: cylinders or capacity. Focus on the outcomes: power, torque and, crucially, the driving characteristics in the real world.

Take my situation: I would NEVER have bought a 4 cylinder car if you'd asked me over the last 2 decades (last 4 cylinder I owned was a Citroen BX GTi, which I sold in 1995). And now here I am with a Spanky new 4 cylinder car, happy as Larry. It wasn't the cylinders I needed, it was poke and refinement, and here I have it. L405 P400e Autobiography (MY2020)... Silicon Silver / Espresso

Post #570095 16th Oct 2020 11:59pm
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AJGalaxy2012



Member Since: 11 Jun 2018
Location: Gainsborough
Posts: 1446

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Bonatti Grey

I worked in USA a couple of years ago for 10 months or so, I was given a 5 litre V8 Mustang as my hire car. Whilst there it had to have a service, they gave me a 2.3 eco boost Mustang. The 2.3 was quick, really quick but it had to rev and it's exhaust note was not in keeping with the car, number of cylinders does count considerably in my book, a 4 pot in a Rangie simply isnt right. BMW i3 Electric Car
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

Post #570108 17th Oct 2020 8:52am
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ilard



Member Since: 21 Oct 2012
Location: London
Posts: 698

United Kingdom 

I totally agree with you (but only in the context that trains should be steam trains and recorded music should be on vinyl. Those were the days!)

In all seriousness, 5.0 fatties are superb, iconic, really. But not so good that I don't prefer my wee 4 pot in real world usage. So we can agree to disagree and 5.0 owners have my full respect. The difference between a fatty and a Mustang is a fatty is a place to relax at low revs, with muted (near silent) engine notes so you lose much of the V8 benefit if the smaller engine also has lots of torque and my P400e has more torque than a P525 V8 fatty and from 1000 rpm lower in the rev range. Trust me, they shift. Try one.

I rented a V6 Mustang convertible in the US (3.0? It was in 2007 so whatever they produced back then) and it was awful in literally every regard. Presumably the V8 makes it worthwhile. L405 P400e Autobiography (MY2020)... Silicon Silver / Espresso

Post #570117 17th Oct 2020 10:32am
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