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AJGalaxy2012



Member Since: 11 Jun 2018
Location: Gainsborough
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United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Bonatti Grey

verydisco wrote:
and you are still running what is indeed an electric powertrain. lots of over-complexity unfortunately.


Take a look under your bonnet and underneath, marvel at the coplexity of your drivetrain - Turbos, fuel pumps, pistons, cranks, oil pumps, fuel injectors and list goes on, not even mentioned diffs, driveshafts autoboxes, transfer cases etc. An Electric vehicle would have multiple motors and speed controllers, a battery and a BMS. No complexity there compared to ICE powered vehicles. BMW i3 Electric Car (170 bhp mobility scooter)
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

Post #600209 10th Jul 2021 4:23pm
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AJGalaxy2012



Member Since: 11 Jun 2018
Location: Gainsborough
Posts: 976

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Bonatti Grey

IGP wrote:
Question is, will it be able to tow 3.5 Ton like the current vehicles? As far as I am aware, most electric cars are not capable of towing. I think the only exceptions are the Tesla Model X, Audi Etron and a Mercedes model which I can't remember.

Ivan


It only needs designing the technology is there. Electric drive lends itself to towing 100% torque at 0 rpm, exactly whats needed, no gearbox, no gearchange. BMW i3 Electric Car (170 bhp mobility scooter)
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

Post #600210 10th Jul 2021 4:27pm
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Slow progress



Member Since: 30 Jun 2020
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Suspect there’s going to be a fair bit of agreeing to disagree 😀

Post #600215 10th Jul 2021 5:18pm
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AJGalaxy2012



Member Since: 11 Jun 2018
Location: Gainsborough
Posts: 976

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Bonatti Grey

Thats a very healthy situation in society, different opinions, all respected (even though others are often wrong LOL). BMW i3 Electric Car (170 bhp mobility scooter)
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

Post #600224 10th Jul 2021 7:34pm
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Slow progress



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I do suspect in some forums you’re not allowed an opinion, entry only if you agree…and then it becomes an echo chamber.

Also suspect that like we look at Victorian steam engines 100years from now we’ll look at diesel and petrol cars the same way….looking forward to seeing the first flying Range Rover….just hope reliability is better than today!

Post #600226 10th Jul 2021 8:05pm
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AJGalaxy2012



Member Since: 11 Jun 2018
Location: Gainsborough
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United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Bonatti Grey

Flying Range Rover, that would be the Titanic or the Comet of the 2020's Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy BMW i3 Electric Car (170 bhp mobility scooter)
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

Post #600247 11th Jul 2021 6:46am
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Slow progress



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The only flying car thing I like so far is one called Black Fly, here’s a link, range needs to massively improve though:

Post #600249 11th Jul 2021 7:55am
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AJGalaxy2012



Member Since: 11 Jun 2018
Location: Gainsborough
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United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 V8 Bonatti Grey

That's not really a flying car though, it's a small aircraft. I see huge potential for failure with that, vectoring thrust with no redundancy is madness in my book, I certainly wouldn't fly it.
The structural and dynamic requirements between car and aircraft are so far apart that making one vehicle do the other mode results in the performance of both modes being compromised.

Here is a true flying car:-



It's not a good car and it's not a good aircraft either. BMW i3 Electric Car (170 bhp mobility scooter)
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

Post #600251 11th Jul 2021 8:15am
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Merchy



Member Since: 14 Feb 2021
Location: North Wales
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United Kingdom 2006 Range Rover Vogue Td6 Zermatt Silver

FI may use hydrogen?

Whilst not applicable to general cars, Ross Brawn has just made interesting comments about the possibility of F1 using hydrogen as fuel. I have tried to watch the EV version of F1, but it's like watching paint dry, Brawn's comment about a 6 tonne battery made me chuckle.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/57842205

As for the flying cars, so far all we seem to have are aircraft that can taxi a long way. For those with long memories, some flying cars don't need wings, think back to the Mercedes CLR cars at the 1999 Le Mans. The first incident was not caught on camera, and Mark Weber was quoted as saying 'When I told them what happened, Mercedes didn't really believe me' Shocked

Post #600845 16th Jul 2021 9:56am
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This makes an interesting watch

Post #600853 16th Jul 2021 11:17am
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Treebor99



Member Since: 07 Feb 2021
Location: Rugby
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United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue TDV8 Fuji White

Very Interesting, agree with everything Lord Bamford says, and JCB are not the only ones.
Hydrogen will feature in our future for sure.

Cummins Inc have invested heavily in Hydrogen. They are not just making Fuel cells but also the electrolisers to produce Hydrogen. They are targeting green hydrogen.
In Canada they are using hydro power to run a 5Mw Hydrolyser. On the plains of Spain a solar farm is being built - right next to it a Cummins Hydrolyser to use all the excess electricity in Hydrogen production.
Fuel Cells and Electrolisers are all scaleable. You want more power, add another fuel cell etc.

There are many delivery / refuse / long haul trucks using Cummins powertrains out testing. All Fuel cell powered.
Cummins are not just doing the fuel cell, they are doing the full control system, motors, drive systems etc.
There's an experimental trains in Germany running on Cummins Hydrogen fuel cells.
They don't have the weight penalty of batteries - something Lord Bamford mentioned.
Quick to refuel (compared to batteries).
At the moment there are many times wind farms and solar farms produce more power than the demand - that power can all be used to make green hydrogen.
Cummins are also involved with Hydrogen storage solutions because We need the whole package from production to storage to use.

As time an technology advances the cost of hydrogen will come down.

Oh and yes Cummins probably will be making hydrogen engines too and if you hadn't guessed, I do work for Cummins.
I'm proud that we have some very forward thinking management.
I only know what I read in the internal news - I'm not a hydrogen expert - so I'm not looking to get into a deep complex discussion.
I just wanted to let you guys know what I know. There is hope for the future - And maybe - just maybe some bright spark will figure out how to convert my TDV8 from diesel to hydrogen Smile Anything can be made to work if you fiddle with it long enough (and have deep pockets|)
Current cars, 2011 FF 4.4 TVD8; Audit TT 1.8T convertible.
Disco 3 SE, gone, too many issues developing!
Freelander 2 SD4, gone
Disco 2 TD5, gone
Freelander 1 TD4, gone
Disco 1 V8 lpg, awesome, gone
LR90 2.5TD - I converted to 300tdi R380
2005 BMWR1200GS gone; 1999 Yamaha R6, gone; 1997 Honda Fireblade, gone; 1994 YZF750; 1992 Kawasaki ZZR100; Kawasaki GPX750

Post #600868 16th Jul 2021 12:42pm
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supershuttle



Member Since: 20 Mar 2011
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England 2013 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Luxor

Having a Diesel (swapped for a Petrol) the C02 is still a big problem as it is with both. But I just watched an interesting piece on the news by Ross Brawn (F1 MD) saying that batteries wouldn't work for F1 but Hydrogen may offer a way forward. None of this will be a problem for me as I suspect that my current car may well be my last but it's certainly interesting to watch. I've tried VHS, Betamax ,mini disc and cassette in order to pick a winner but currently I just stream stuff from Spotify and Netflix so they all lost Rolling with laughter Geoff

Post #600871 16th Jul 2021 1:41pm
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Slow progress



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Likewise we are getting hydrogen as a by product in certain aspects of Steelmaking so looking to see if we can make it available in the longer term. We’re also actively looking at providing updated steel for various OEM fuel cells and non grain oriented steel for the ev/fuel cell vehicles, including very high performance vehicles!

Can really see some momentum in hydrogen over the next five years. It will be built for industrial vehicles and thus the network will get built….my only concern is if they reapply hydrogen for flying vehicles! Perhaps the Toyota Hindenburg??

Post #600875 16th Jul 2021 4:07pm
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Also having the same debate on another forum;

https://www.lrukforums.com/threads/anyone-...st-1768063

Post #600984 18th Jul 2021 7:12am
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Now this is a future I could buy into;

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/113210...gine-alive

Post #601051 18th Jul 2021 4:45pm
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