Advertise on fullfatrr.com »

Home > Off Topic - Other Cars > Hydrogen powered Defender
Post Reply  Down to end
Page 1 of 4 1234>
Print this entire topic · 
Merchy



Member Since: 14 Feb 2021
Location: North Wales
Posts: 613

United Kingdom 2006 Range Rover Vogue Td6 Zermatt Silver
Hydrogen powered Defender

Daily Mail web news has this Defender using Hydrogen fuel cell article,

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/art...ender.html

Post #597566 15th Jun 2021 9:42am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
DrF



Member Since: 30 Jun 2014
Location: South East
Posts: 874

United Kingdom 2018 Range Rover SVAutobiography 5.0 SC V8 Orkney Grey

That's excellent news, i would have a hydrogen car in a heartbeat, not bothered by electric battery as completely the wrong way forward in my view, no different to the government changing direction on diesel (oh what a surprise!)

I will be front of que for a new Range Rover Hydrogen anyday, and thats from a true petrol head Thumbs Up Thumbs Up 2018 Range Rover SV LWB Autobiography 5.0 Supercharged
&
2013 Range Rover 5.0 Supercharged Autobiography

Post #597572 15th Jun 2021 11:08am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Kot



Member Since: 10 Mar 2021
Location: InThePub
Posts: 168

United Kingdom 

Not many area's that can provide Hydrogen yet, can they install enough in 5 Years time? Maybe by that time they can reduce the cost of Hydrogen to an acceptable level.
I already have ITM and Ceres Power shares Very Happy the future looks bright for them if they can pull this off. 2018 SE SDV8 4.4 Byron Blue

Post #597579 15th Jun 2021 12:28pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
bishbosh10



Member Since: 25 Apr 2013
Location: North Somerset
Posts: 301

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Orkney Grey

Google "PowerPaste". That has got to have more potential than hydrogen in gaseous form - no infrastructure to build and an energy density greater than petrol!

I too think batteries are unsustainable and all wrong for cars in general so am following this development closely. Bish.

2011 TDV8 Vogue SE

Post #597602 15th Jun 2021 2:35pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
verydisco



Member Since: 10 Dec 2009
Location: UK/US
Posts: 2848

United Kingdom 2002 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Tangiers Orange

DrF wrote:
That's excellent news, i would have a hydrogen car in a heartbeat, not bothered by electric battery as completely the wrong way forward in my view, Thumbs Up Thumbs Up


Could you please elaborate your position? An hydrogen car is an electricity-powered car that producess its own energy on board from Hydrogen - itself produced (at the time mainly using energy for the reaction from imported fossil fuels) then moved around under pressure.

Electric cars store and use electricity produced locally, inc from solar, wind, etc that we have in large quantity in the UK or anywhere on this planet really.
You can apparently find electricity absolutely anywhere (charging station, public point, any house, supermarket, campsite, services, etc) Hydrogen is quite far away from this abundance of charging point.

Looking forward to your feedback DrF. Cheers l=Oo\________/oO=l l:OolΞΞΞΞΞΞΞloO:l

Current
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L SDV8 - 2013 - Indus Silver, on Almond.
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L V8 - 2002 - ex-2003 G4 Challenge Event Vehicle, Stage 3: Australia
RANGE ROVER HSE 4.4L V8 - 2004 - one-of-one Overfinch
RANGE ROVER P38a 4.0L V8 - 1999 - ex-2000 TReK Event Vehicle: South Africa

Previous:
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L TDV8 - 2012 - RANGE ROVER 3.6L TDV8 x3 - RANGE ROVER Td6 x1 - RANGE ROVER Classic 3.5L V8 x1

Post #597623 15th Jun 2021 4:04pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
mjdronfield



Member Since: 04 Nov 2011
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 6265

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Buckingham Blue
Hydrogen Defender

Click image to enlarge
 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.4 TDV8

Previous cars :
2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6
1999 Discovery Td5 ES
1995 BMW M5 3.8 6 speed
1992 Range Rover 3.9 Efi Vogue
1992 BMW M5 3.8
1988 BMW 735i SE
1989 Ford Sierra XR4x4 2.9i
1981 Ford Fiesta Supersport

Post #597638 15th Jun 2021 7:38pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Cam-Tech-Craig



Member Since: 04 Aug 2011
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 14718

England 2014 Range Rover SVAutobiography SDV8 Orkney Grey

Many car manufacturers have made Hydrogen mules... Thumbs Up

Post #597660 16th Jun 2021 12:43am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Merchy



Member Since: 14 Feb 2021
Location: North Wales
Posts: 613

United Kingdom 2006 Range Rover Vogue Td6 Zermatt Silver

Posted a thread about this Daily Mail article earlier today, as CTC said, lots of makers have tried this.
Not really news, as various makers have been experimenting with this idea for a long time now.

I have always thought that this is the best way to go. Thumbs Up

The day they come up with a cost effective, efficient method of getting Hydrogen from source to your fuel tank, will be the day batteries die. Yeah I know, I just couldn't resist it. Whistle

Post #597663 16th Jun 2021 1:13am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Merchy



Member Since: 14 Feb 2021
Location: North Wales
Posts: 613

United Kingdom 2006 Range Rover Vogue Td6 Zermatt Silver

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article...caars.html

New article on the Daily mail site, at least someone is now talking sense instead of just pushing battery powered cars Thumbs Up

Post #597664 16th Jun 2021 1:22am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
verydisco



Member Since: 10 Dec 2009
Location: UK/US
Posts: 2848

United Kingdom 2002 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Tangiers Orange

Battery cars do make more sense than hydrogen on many, well, on all levels really.
Hence why there's still no mainstream hydrogen cars.
Electricity is cheap, easy to produce anywhere on planet earth. Hydrogen for individual cars is not energy efficient - and you are still running what is indeed an electric powertrain. lots of over-complexity unfortunately. l=Oo\________/oO=l l:OolΞΞΞΞΞΞΞloO:l

Current
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L SDV8 - 2013 - Indus Silver, on Almond.
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L V8 - 2002 - ex-2003 G4 Challenge Event Vehicle, Stage 3: Australia
RANGE ROVER HSE 4.4L V8 - 2004 - one-of-one Overfinch
RANGE ROVER P38a 4.0L V8 - 1999 - ex-2000 TReK Event Vehicle: South Africa

Previous:
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L TDV8 - 2012 - RANGE ROVER 3.6L TDV8 x3 - RANGE ROVER Td6 x1 - RANGE ROVER Classic 3.5L V8 x1

Post #597672 16th Jun 2021 8:22am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
IGP



Member Since: 09 Jul 2020
Location: Caverswall
Posts: 133

United Kingdom 2013 Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 Siberian Silver

Question is, will it be able to tow 3.5 Ton like the current vehicles? As far as I am aware, most electric cars are not capable of towing. I think the only exceptions are the Tesla Model X, Audi Etron and a Mercedes model which I can't remember.

Ivan 2013 Vogue SE SDV8
1990 Defender 90 200Tdi
2013 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Luxury

Post #597696 16th Jun 2021 11:41am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
verydisco



Member Since: 10 Dec 2009
Location: UK/US
Posts: 2848

United Kingdom 2002 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Tangiers Orange

A hydrogen car could tow if you give it a motor to match and the system to do so. Like most current electric vehicles, no hydrogen car is currently made with this purpose in mind.

As far as electric vehicles, the larger ones do, such as the ones you mentioned, but many more are coming this this intent, including CyberTruck, Ford 150, Rivian RT1, etc. Indeed, to tow you need torque, nothing beats electricity for torque, so larger EVs and larger Hydrogen vehicle could (they are essentially a self-producing electric car with electric motor(s) and a battery fed by the hydrogen system)

The hydrogen vehicles could indeed, however, would they be significantly less efficient (they requires more energy to produce Hydrogen, transport it, store it, to in fine make electricity in the car)
Hydrogen system does work, but electric cars are simply much more simple, efficient, reliable, and cost effective. l=Oo\________/oO=l l:OolΞΞΞΞΞΞΞloO:l

Current
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L SDV8 - 2013 - Indus Silver, on Almond.
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L V8 - 2002 - ex-2003 G4 Challenge Event Vehicle, Stage 3: Australia
RANGE ROVER HSE 4.4L V8 - 2004 - one-of-one Overfinch
RANGE ROVER P38a 4.0L V8 - 1999 - ex-2000 TReK Event Vehicle: South Africa

Previous:
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L TDV8 - 2012 - RANGE ROVER 3.6L TDV8 x3 - RANGE ROVER Td6 x1 - RANGE ROVER Classic 3.5L V8 x1

Post #597697 16th Jun 2021 12:07pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
bishbosh10



Member Since: 25 Apr 2013
Location: North Somerset
Posts: 301

United Kingdom 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 Orkney Grey

The problem with batteries is the sourcing of the metals - very environmentally damaging and also very scarce, Add that to a relatively short battery life and relatively long charging cycle and it just doesn't add up for me.

With PowerPaste you need no infrastructure - you could refuel at literally any cornershop that stocked the "cassettes". Obviously in its infancy currently but if the same effort was put into developing that as has been (in my view) misguidedly spent on batteries it would develop very quick I would think. Bish.

2011 TDV8 Vogue SE

Post #597702 16th Jun 2021 1:42pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
verydisco



Member Since: 10 Dec 2009
Location: UK/US
Posts: 2848

United Kingdom 2002 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Tangiers Orange

"The problem with batteries is the sourcing of the metals - very environmentally damaging and also very scarce, Add that to a relatively short battery life and relatively long charging cycle and it just doesn't add up for me. "

This is not the case anymore, and hasn't been the case for years really. New techs have eradicated the need for several metals, and more and more of these are now recycled meaning eventually we wont dig anymore, simply repurpose the materials (new techs allow recycling 95/98% of older batteries to make new ones - see Redwood materials, etc. https://www.redwoodmaterials.com/)

''Shorts battery life'' this is not the case. 2012 Model S teslas still run around with original batteries with 85/90% battery life and some have well over 500.000 miles (taxis mainly)

''Long charging'', another myth, run a relatively modern electric car and you'll see you don't need to spend much time waiting, if any. Bear in mind each time you leave home/the office/work, you can leave with a full 'tank' so you only need to refill/charge on a long journey.
On Tesla model S 85D we can drive for 2.5/3 hours without stopping, but then we need to stop for other 'needs' than recharging the car. Then a 25/45 min for lunch is appreciated. Then it recharges at the destination.

Now if you drive more than 5 hours a day, fuel will still be best unless you opt for the latest Model S with 400 miles range.or even +500 with the Plaid version. Thumbs Up l=Oo\________/oO=l l:OolΞΞΞΞΞΞΞloO:l

Current
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L SDV8 - 2013 - Indus Silver, on Almond.
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L V8 - 2002 - ex-2003 G4 Challenge Event Vehicle, Stage 3: Australia
RANGE ROVER HSE 4.4L V8 - 2004 - one-of-one Overfinch
RANGE ROVER P38a 4.0L V8 - 1999 - ex-2000 TReK Event Vehicle: South Africa

Previous:
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L TDV8 - 2012 - RANGE ROVER 3.6L TDV8 x3 - RANGE ROVER Td6 x1 - RANGE ROVER Classic 3.5L V8 x1

Post #597708 16th Jun 2021 3:26pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Slow progress



Member Since: 30 Jun 2020
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 156

United Kingdom 

Likewise, looking forward to hydrogen fuel cells. I won’t touch a pure EV, take the I-Pace as an example small print is only a small percentage of fast charges are allowed otherwise the warranty is invalidated. Cost to replace the battery today….c£20k. Speaking with the taxi drivers in the Netherlands they hate the Tesla’s for the poor build quality, the battery range variations in winter/summer, they have to have 2 per driver to allow them to give 24hr cover. On battery life they really are not that good, getting better yes, but they are all looking into using them for powering houses or recycling (not in place yet) them.

The suggestion in some quarters is that a certain EV manufacturer has also hired a lot of influencers to negate the negative press on the material issues in terms of sourcing and method of extraction…. underwater mining of the seabed and thermal vents next??? Not so green, it just means non reliance on China! The next dieselgate perhaps??

The new Toyota Mirae is the future for me not Tesla. The new Mirae on test got 600miles on a tank, takes 5mins to fill, cheaper than the Tesla equivalent at £68k (still not cheap). Latest fuel cell is down from 15mins to 30secs per cell to manufacture, just need the infrastructure. It also cleans the air as you drive, produces water as a byproduct…..what’s not to like??

Just my 2peneth! Smile Laughing


Last edited by Slow progress on 10th Jul 2021 4:25pm. Edited 1 time in total

Post #600207 10th Jul 2021 4:01pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Post Reply  Back to top
Page 1 of 4 1234>
All times are GMT + 1 Hour

Jump to  
Previous Topic | Next Topic >
Posting Rules
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Site Copyright © 2006-2021 Futuranet Ltd & Martin Lewis


Switch to Mobile site