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Buz1500



Member Since: 05 Sep 2011
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 354

United Kingdom 2019 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Carpathian Grey
Root cause....

I’ve just found this on the Jaguar F-Pace forum which may assist in understanding the issue. Not sure if this has been posted before, apologies if it has.
It was posted in response to a Jag owner who’d previously had a RR Sport where the crankshaft failed at 22k.

Short trips and cold starts have been contributing to the death of your engine. These had a design flaw. As they sold far more then they ever estimated, they forgot to replace the moulds in time. So the 'nodge' on the cast block where the 'hole' in the semi circle section of the crank bearings slotted in, faded in the last thousands of engines. Then there was a problem with the thickness of these bearings. Car manufacturers use contractors to supply parts. So did Ford [ the engine originated from Ford ]. So there were tolerances in the thickness. But they mixed these batches. So it could happen that opposing halves of one bearing varied op to 0.2 mm in thickness, effectively bending the carnkshaft every half turn slightly. Also there was a mistake in the tooling ; a CNC bench that removed edges near the flanks of the excentric parts, undercut slightly forming a snapping point like you cut a scratch in a panel of glass. Evidently 90% of snapped krankshafts fit with others in detail. A man in South Africa spend loads of time investigating this [ https://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/sh ... k-Failures ].

The result of some aspects put together [ for this engine ] is that at cold starts, this semi section gets a 'shove' when started since the crankshafts is resting metal-to- metal, worse if the car is used rarely, let say once every 5 days or less. Then, some people have the bad habbit of pushing the throttle at starting and revving up : not good at all. Sadly Jaguar made this the automatic starting procedure for all F-Type engines, why.... Rolling Eyes

Then, driving a short distance leaves the oil cold and it does not lubricate well, also water from condensation does not evaporate and builds up in the sump. Some people only observe the 'milage' for sevice intervals, though one year is the minimum on the TdV6.

Eventually such a 'shove' could be enough for a section of the bearing to shift over the 'nodge' and ends up wedged between the other bearing section and the crankshaft, extremely deforming the crankshaft every turn and in a few turns it snaps off..

Sadly JLR did not pro-actively pick up this problem. Sofar around 8% of all TdV6 ended this way. Sometimes at very low milage, sometimes at very high milages. The latter with engines well used and cared for, but the 'thin' section from a pair [from different producers] of crankshafts bearing shells was then worn out to a level it would vibrate in the bedding as it rocked when the load shifted from the thicker half to the thinner, so 'shimmied' the section to jump from the nodge that itself was in perfect order.

In Taiwan the authorities has decided that JLR has to replace all engines that end due to a failing crankshaft, no matter age or milage... 2019 L405 SDV8 Autobiography
2023 Defender P400e HSE X-dynamic - gone
2020 Defender P300 SE - gone

2019 Jaguar F-Pace SVR - gone
2013 SDV8 Autobiography - gone
2011 L322 TDV8 Vogue SE - gone
2006 L322 3.6 Vogue Se - gone
1999 P38 4.0 se - gone
199? Classic 3.5 - gone

Post #544979 24th Feb 2020 10:17am
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verydisco



Member Since: 10 Dec 2009
Location: UK/US
Posts: 2952

United Kingdom 2002 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Tangiers Orange

excellent update Thumbs Up
Would you mind posting the link as it is not working, please?
Thumbs Up l=Oo\________/oO=l l:OolΞΞΞΞΞΞΞloO:l

Current
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L SDV8 - 2013 - Indus Silver, on Almond.
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L V8 - 2002 - ex-2003 G4 Challenge Event Vehicle, Stage 3: Australia
RANGE ROVER HSE 4.4L V8 - 2004 - one-of-one Overfinch
RANGE ROVER P38a 4.0L V8 - 1999 - ex-2000 TReK Event Vehicle: South Africa

Previous:
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L TDV8 - 2012 - RANGE ROVER 3.6L TDV8 x3 - RANGE ROVER Td6 x1 - RANGE ROVER Classic 3.5L V8 x1

Post #544981 24th Feb 2020 10:25am
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Buz1500



Member Since: 05 Sep 2011
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 354

United Kingdom 2019 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Carpathian Grey

I didn’t attach a link in my original post......but try this. The relevant section is near the bottom of page 1

https://www.fpaceforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5046

I’m a registered user on the site so it might not work for unregistered users but worth a try. 2019 L405 SDV8 Autobiography
2023 Defender P400e HSE X-dynamic - gone
2020 Defender P300 SE - gone

2019 Jaguar F-Pace SVR - gone
2013 SDV8 Autobiography - gone
2011 L322 TDV8 Vogue SE - gone
2006 L322 3.6 Vogue Se - gone
1999 P38 4.0 se - gone
199? Classic 3.5 - gone

Post #544983 24th Feb 2020 10:46am
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verydisco



Member Since: 10 Dec 2009
Location: UK/US
Posts: 2952

United Kingdom 2002 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Tangiers Orange

Thanks Buz, but I meant the one in you latest post:
https://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/sh ... k-Failures ].

As you can see it's not copied properly

cheers l=Oo\________/oO=l l:OolΞΞΞΞΞΞΞloO:l

Current
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L SDV8 - 2013 - Indus Silver, on Almond.
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L V8 - 2002 - ex-2003 G4 Challenge Event Vehicle, Stage 3: Australia
RANGE ROVER HSE 4.4L V8 - 2004 - one-of-one Overfinch
RANGE ROVER P38a 4.0L V8 - 1999 - ex-2000 TReK Event Vehicle: South Africa

Previous:
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L TDV8 - 2012 - RANGE ROVER 3.6L TDV8 x3 - RANGE ROVER Td6 x1 - RANGE ROVER Classic 3.5L V8 x1

Post #544995 24th Feb 2020 11:39am
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Buz1500



Member Since: 05 Sep 2011
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 354

United Kingdom 2019 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Carpathian Grey

Oops, didn’t spot that URL.

Try this....

https://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/showt...k-Failures 2019 L405 SDV8 Autobiography
2023 Defender P400e HSE X-dynamic - gone
2020 Defender P300 SE - gone

2019 Jaguar F-Pace SVR - gone
2013 SDV8 Autobiography - gone
2011 L322 TDV8 Vogue SE - gone
2006 L322 3.6 Vogue Se - gone
1999 P38 4.0 se - gone
199? Classic 3.5 - gone

Post #545004 24th Feb 2020 12:41pm
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Mikey



Member Since: 10 Jan 2008
Location: Dundee
Posts: 1691

Scotland 
Re: Root cause....

Buz1500 wrote:
So the 'nodge' on the cast block where the 'hole' in the semi circle section of the crank bearings slotted in, faded in the last thousands of engines. Then there was a problem with the thickness of these bearings.


If that were true, then the early 3.0 engines in the RRS/D4 would be fine.

But, they are not, they still snap cranks...

However, I do agree with short journeys not doing the car any favours Thumbs Up

Post #545015 24th Feb 2020 2:18pm
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Buz1500



Member Since: 05 Sep 2011
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 354

United Kingdom 2019 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Carpathian Grey

Hi Mike,

The text contained in my post was merely copied from another forum. It appeared to be based on some very detailed investigation and written by someone with a good understanding of the issue. 2019 L405 SDV8 Autobiography
2023 Defender P400e HSE X-dynamic - gone
2020 Defender P300 SE - gone

2019 Jaguar F-Pace SVR - gone
2013 SDV8 Autobiography - gone
2011 L322 TDV8 Vogue SE - gone
2006 L322 3.6 Vogue Se - gone
1999 P38 4.0 se - gone
199? Classic 3.5 - gone

Post #545054 24th Feb 2020 7:14pm
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Mikey



Member Since: 10 Jan 2008
Location: Dundee
Posts: 1691

Scotland 

I think it's a combination of issues, TBH Thumbs Up

Post #545057 24th Feb 2020 7:40pm
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martinf



Member Since: 26 Dec 2014
Location: sussex
Posts: 256

United Kingdom 2016 Range Rover Vogue TDV6 Santorini Black

Buz1500 wrote:
Hi Mike,

The text contained in my post was merely copied from another forum. It appeared to be based on some very detailed investigation and written by someone with a good understanding of the issue.


But the finding that a large number of engines are affected does not seem to be borne out in real life, at least so far as the Full Fat is concerned.

Post #545070 24th Feb 2020 8:59pm
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pld118



Member Since: 25 Mar 2013
Location: Bairns
Posts: 4218

Scotland 2014 Range Rover Vogue SDV6 Santorini Black
Re: Facts

pld118 wrote:
L405 3.0TDv6 crankshaft poll now added to this thread (below)... relevant to the original thread title which covered 'rumours and facts'.

[ffruk forum members] have polled no issues thereon with their L405 3.0 TDv6 crankshaft; and

So far, no L405 3.0 TDv6 forum member owners have voted to report their crankshaft having failed and/ or that warranty/ LR left them high and dry in that eventuality.

Thumbs Up

https://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic54027.html


An interesting thread found and posted today by Buz. The thread suggests preventative maintenance options. It does not cite any examples of L405 3.0 TDv6 crankshaft failure which is the point of this ffruk thread and the drum long term banged on this forum. Also worthy of note that the last entry on the thread highlighted by Buz was in 2016 and we are now in 2020 Thumbs Up

Based on sound research, well documented on this and linked threads, there is still nothing to worry about with the L405 TDv6, unless or until someone produces a shed load of stats of L405 owners being left high and dry following crankshaft failures... And if that was a fact, given the reach of this ffruk forum, would we not have heard by now? Thumbs Up

Post #545071 24th Feb 2020 9:04pm
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