As someone who lives in Barcelona, we already have limitations on cars being able to drive into the city centre depending on their CO2 output - Paris and London have similar situations, I think we'll be seeing more of these type of restrictions in the coming years, rather than all-out bans on cars already owned by people.

Nail on the head! Keep electric cars for the urban warriors as per the usual TV adverts and leave those of us who live in the country where the nearest petrol station is five miles away (and it does not have any charging points) and as far as I am aware there are no charging points in our nearest town which is ten miles away with our 4X4 cars! Also the village I live in has no gas supply so when Boris bans gas and oil fired boilers we see screwed as our only heating is oil fired.
We don't get enough sun for solar panels and can't install wind turbine as we are in a conservation area near Salisbury Plain!

So Boris (or Carrie) second word is off! Pick your first and it begins with F and ends in uck!
Unless of course you are going to give me thirty or forty grand to buy a new car and give me the increased cost of my electric bill each month! Oh yes and another load of money to install calor heating or will that be banned as well!

It is in ten years, and only a band on new cars If you want to stay as you are then nothing will change for you...So why that anger and anxiety that comes out of your post?

And I think you are missing the point, why would you want to charge 5 miles away when you can charge at home

Like I said previously what will be will be, if and when all new cars sold have to be electric we’ll no doubt manage and certainly our opinions and speculations (mine and my wife’s included) don’t matter and won’t change anything. Geoff

I can understand where Paul is coming from, he is being attacked on all sides with no consideration for how all the changes are going to impact him, not just the demise of sales of diesel & petrol engines. My nearest petrol station is 15 miles away, I too have no natural gas so rely on oil for the heating and hot water and a log burner as an additional form of heat during cold days. I am constantly reading that I will have to stop burning both oil & wood in the not too distant future. Add to this the threats of how I will get to work will change, there does come a point where you think "enough is enough". I don't have a good public transport system either so that's not an alternative as it wouldn't get me to work on time as the earliest of the 4 buses a day begins it's route too late for me and then finishes too early for me to get home again. I think this just goes to show how little thought has been given to how people live outside of major towns and cities, we don't all have the same access to things as some people seem to think. Even people I work with seem to struggle to grasp the concept when I explain why I don't get the bus in for example

Thankfully, this isn't me having a rant, just explaining how lives for people are different and I suspect that unless you are living this way, it's difficult to picture how each small change has a much greater effect  2011 TDV8 Vogue SE

Will someone who supports 100% carbon neutral convince me why it has to be 100% ?

If technology continues to improve the issue will surely even out with time - more EV's, more solar/wind/tide electricity generation & pollution will drop, drop enough for nature to take care of the rest.

Reliance on one power source is folly.

I do like the idea of Sifta regarding hashing up a solar panel type way of charging up an EV come the nuclear holocaust, I could do that too, as could quite a few of us here.

Lets face it, a mix of EV's & fossil fuelled vehicle would actually work if the vehicle is matched to the use.

Personally, I think I would be far more receptive to change if it were not for the issue being rammed down my throat at every possible opportunity. 2003 Range Rover Vogue TD6

It's all Greta Thunbergs fault


Someone should have just kicked her in the crotch and sent her back to her parents.

We will never be carbon neutral 100% regardless what changes are imposed over the years. Volcanoes emit huge amounts of CO2 and the latest reports suggests that there are 20 eruptions both minor and minor per day. I doubt even Greta could stop these from happening 2011 TDV8 Vogue SE

Brian Considine wrote:

Will someone who supports 100% carbon neutral convince me why it has to be 100% ?

Brian Considine wrote:

Will someone who supports 100% carbon neutral convince me why it has to be 100% ? ...

Well I am not saying that I support 100% carbon neutral, but I think I understand it (sort of).

If we could stop adding to CO2 to the atmoshpere (i.e. become carbon neutral) then the planet should be able to overcome the excess carbon dioxide we have already put into the system.

It would actually be better if we could become "carbon negative" perhaps by some sort of carbon capture and storage. In order to replace all the thousands of years of stored carbon we have released, mainly over the last two hundred years or so.

To me it is a bit like food, we are programmed to like and seek out sugary things because they are hard to find in nature. From an evolutionary standpoint this has worked well until the very recent past when our collective ability to produce vast amounts of sugary foods at very low cost has unbalanced things to our detriment. We are programmed to enjoy travel, meeting people and doing things, which has also held us in good stead until we became so good at it, that we started over consuming things.

I am sure the planet can thrive with a bit of carbon release (such as a few cavemen cooking on open fires) but the wholesale, unfetterd release of thousands of years worth of stored up hydrocarbons is a different matter - As we are just beginning to see.  2010 Range Rover TDV8 Baltic Blue Autobiography (2011 MY) - SOLD
1960 Land Rover SII SWB SW
2020 BMW R1250 RT LE
2021 Triton ST-125 (Monkey Bike)

Siftah I am aware of what the national grid page says about the ‘myths’, but this doesn’t hold true... why did 2 power stations going off line cause the complete failure of the national grid if there is plenty of capacity in generation.... this was on a windy day as well... I will repeat, all coal power stations are closing within the next 4 yrs, some nuclear power stations are being closed as well as gas power generation, these all effect the base load capacity, throw in the unreliable renewables (1 days straight with no wind or wind power generation in the UK in 2016), the UK has gone a whole month without sun... so if renewables are to be relied on for 50% of production we have real problems before we connect all the EV’s in the next few years.

The government lead propaganda around this including the national grids own website doesn’t match reality... it’s well off.

If the UK government were spending money on lots of new gas/nuclear base load power generation and ‘Tesla’s’ style battery banks across the UK plus spending big on the very old and unreliable national grid, plus a fully budgeted plan for sorting the charging infrastructure... but the reverse is true.

You said there are already more charging stations than petrol stations, but this isn’t enough by a long way... each petrol station has 4 or more pumps and each fill up takes a max of 15 mins even with shopping, a car needs at least 45 minutes on a fast charger to get any reasonable range, a 5 minute fill up in a IC car adds an average of 300 miles, not ~100 miles for 45 minutes... just do the maths, there needs to be millions more charging stations just to cope with longer journeys, this doesn’t help someone living in a block of flats or a terraced street with each household having roughly 2 cars the numbers and technology restrictions are massive. Also there are millions of households that work ‘from home’ so charging at work isn’t an answer either.

There are way too many holes in the argument for ‘full electric’ in 10 yrs to be realistic without a fully budgeted and action plan in place now. The government probably know this but know they probably won’t be in power so it’s just rhetoric for their voters now.

I have to question, is this really the green future we are being led to believe? This report only focusses on Lithium. Cobalt & Nickel which is also required in batteries poses even more environmental issues

As the world scrambles to replace fossil fuels with clean energy, the environmental impact of finding all the lithium required to enable that transformation could become a serious issue in its own right. “One of the biggest environmental problems caused by our endless hunger for the latest and smartest devices is a growing mineral crisis, particularly those needed to make our batteries,” says Christina Valimaki an analyst at Elsevier.
In South America, the biggest problem is water. The continent’s Lithium Triangle, which covers parts of Argentina, Bolivia and Chile, holds more than half the world’s supply of the metal beneath its otherworldly salt flats. It’s also one of the driest places on earth. That’s a real issue, because to extract lithium, miners start by drilling a hole in the salt flats and pumping salty, mineral-rich brine to the surface.

According to a report by Friends of the Earth, lithium extraction inevitably harms the soil and causes air contamination. In Argentina’s Salar de Hombre Muerto, locals claim that lithium operations have contaminated streams used by humans and livestock, and for crop irrigation. In Chile, there have been clashes between mining companies and local communities, who say that lithium mining is leaving the landscape marred by mountains of discarded salt and canals filled with contaminated water with an unnatural blue hue.

“Like any mining process, it is invasive, it scars the landscape, it destroys the water table and it pollutes the earth and the local wells,” said Guillermo Gonzalez, a lithium battery expert from the University of Chile, in a 2009 interview. “This isn’t a green solution – it’s not a solution at all.” 2011 TDV8 Vogue SE

Half the world's "oil spills" in the ocean come from natural seeps. Nature has dealt with it for millenia.
https://www.whoi.edu/know-your-ocean/ocean...oil-seeps/
But when man spills a little all hell break loose. Bonkers. Instant experts overnight etc. Only need to look at Sars-Cov-2 to see it happening again. Instant experts
This is a dig at the masses and nobody on here  2011 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE Buckingham Blue with Ivory and clear glass = "Rory"
New Defender D300 90 on order so "Rory" will be going to a new home....!
1974 Series 3 Lightweight = "Millie"
My preferred specialist: www.glenrands.co.uk
--------------------------------------------------

@DrRob, yes it's ironic that when there is an oil spill and we get involved in trying to clear it up, we tend to make more of a mess than if we had just left it well alone. 2011 TDV8 Vogue SE

ur20v wrote:

Siftah I am aware of what the national grid page says about the ‘myths’, but this doesn’t hold true... why did 2 power stations going off line cause the complete failure of the national grid if there is plenty of capacity in generation.... this was on a windy day as well... w.

dennij wrote:

I can understand where Paul is coming from, he is being attacked on all sides with no consideration for how all the changes are going to impact him, not just the demise of sales of diesel & petrol engines. My nearest petrol station is 15 miles away, I too have no natural gas so rely on oil for the heating and hot water and a log burner as an additional form of heat during cold days. I am constantly reading that I will have to stop burning both oil & wood in the not too distant future. Add to this the threats of how I will get to work will change, there does come a point where you think "enough is enough". I don't have a good public transport system either so that's not an alternative as it wouldn't get me to work on time as the earliest of the 4 buses a day begins it's route too late for me and then finishes too early for me to get home again. I think this just goes to show how little thought has been given to how people live outside of major towns and cities, we don't all have the same access to things as some people seem to think. Even people I work with seem to struggle to grasp the concept when I explain why I don't get the bus in for example

Thankfully, this isn't me having a rant, just explaining how lives for people are different and I suspect that unless you are living this way, it's difficult to picture how each small change has a much greater effect