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Danwilderspin



Member Since: 15 Jun 2016
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 2074

United Kingdom 2007 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.2 SC V8 Zermatt Silver

Busy work - what’s up with the cam then? Could that be part of your issue? Current stable:
2006 BMW M6
2007 4.2 V8 S/C FF
Gone:
2002 4.4 V8 FF

Post #631024 8th May 2022 10:55pm
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dhallworth



Member Since: 10 Oct 2011
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 2042

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Autobiography TDV8 Baltic Blue

One of the cam journals has some scoring on it so I’m not prepared to refit it.



The cam bearings are in 2 halves, the bottom has is part of the cylinder head, the top half is part of the cam cap that you can remove and I’m not having it eat away at the new heads.

I think I’m going to try and source a new set of cams (all 4) and whilst I’m in here I’m likely to remove the LPG from this car and chuck it. I can’t see any benefit to leaving it there as the flashlube will only delay the inevitable rather then prevent it, to have the seats hardened in the new heads will likely be over a grand too.

Doing 4-5k a year I just don’t see the point in keeping it to be honest. Especially with LPG getting harder and harder to get.

David. 2002 4.6 Vogue SE - Alveston Red with Lightstone Leather
2007 Range Rover Supercharged in Java Black with Ivory Leather
2012 Range Rover 4.4 TDV8 Autobiography in Baltic Blue with Sand Interior

Post #631034 9th May 2022 12:11am
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Danwilderspin



Member Since: 15 Jun 2016
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 2074

United Kingdom 2007 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.2 SC V8 Zermatt Silver

Ah yes I can see - what lpg kit was it? Current stable:
2006 BMW M6
2007 4.2 V8 S/C FF
Gone:
2002 4.4 V8 FF

Post #631060 9th May 2022 10:44am
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dhallworth



Member Since: 10 Oct 2011
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 2042

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Autobiography TDV8 Baltic Blue

It’s a BRC kit with a Fly SF ECU, twin reducers and pumped flashlube. It runs perfectly on it and will hold LPG right through the revs at WOT throttle up through 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear.

Had a proper look at my cams tonight. There’s no way I’m refitting any of these back into the new heads.

Here’s the journals across all 4 cams:

The exhaust cam on bank 2 is horrible. You can see a deep grove that you can loudly click your fingernail in as per the picture below.



















The lobes aren’t nice either. Some are smoothly curved, some a little peaked and some are pointy. Censored











3 out of the 4 cams are available from Land Rover but the RH intake cam is obsolete. I have however managed to find a supplier in the US that has one in stock so this isn’t likely to be going back together any time soon!

When breaking in a new camshaft in our P38 you had to take it to 2500rpm and hold it there for 15 mins to bed in the new camshaft. I can’t find anything about replacing the camshafts in the L322 so am wondering if you need to do the same with the shafts in these too.

I’m going to look at ordering a new inlet that sits under the charge coolers to remove the LPG kit now I think.

David. 2002 4.6 Vogue SE - Alveston Red with Lightstone Leather
2007 Range Rover Supercharged in Java Black with Ivory Leather
2012 Range Rover 4.4 TDV8 Autobiography in Baltic Blue with Sand Interior

Post #631145 9th May 2022 11:22pm
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Danwilderspin



Member Since: 15 Jun 2016
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 2074

United Kingdom 2007 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.2 SC V8 Zermatt Silver

Some questions - what do you think has caused the scoring? Failing oil pump?
Do you think that could be potentially part of the rough running?
Can you not just change the bad cams or do they all need changing for wear reason?
How much are 4 cams! Current stable:
2006 BMW M6
2007 4.2 V8 S/C FF
Gone:
2002 4.4 V8 FF

Post #631156 10th May 2022 7:39am
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Seriouslthinkingaboutit



Member Since: 12 Mar 2022
Location: Essex
Posts: 98

United Kingdom 2007 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.2 SC V8 Buckingham Blue

On bedding in the camshafts - I assume you’ve also checked the Jag forums for this engine or the 4.0 (if similar) as much wider usage in XK and XJ

Douglas 2007 4.2SC Buckingham Blue

https://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic63319.html

Post #631159 10th May 2022 8:19am
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Jayk69



Member Since: 08 Feb 2018
Location: Daventry
Posts: 501

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Barolo Black

would it be worth looking at having them re-profiled? 2012 Vogue 4.4 TDV8 - Current
2014 Navara V6 - Gone
2004 Vogue TD6 - Gone
Grand Cherokee - Gone
Discovery V8 (LPG) - Gone
Discovery TD5 - Gone

Post #631161 10th May 2022 8:38am
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dhallworth



Member Since: 10 Oct 2011
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 2042

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Autobiography TDV8 Baltic Blue

No idea what caused the scoring to be honest. I’d have thought if the oil pump was failing I’d have had oil pressure warnings or noise from the top end. This one was silent and other then the misfire when cold ran perfectly.

No, I don’t believe the scoring or wear had anything to do with the misfire. Looking on diagnostics, cylinder 1 was the worst culprit on my car, looking at the valves, you can clearly see the valve on cylinder 1 has suffered from valve seat recession. It’s very noticeable when comparing it to the other valves in that head.

All 4 cams have some scoring on marks on the lobes so I’m not prepared to refit any of them into the new heads.

The cams on these sit in a cup in the head and then you bolt the bearing cap over the top of the cam. There are no bearing shells on these so fitting the existing cams into the new heads would effectively leave the cams bruising the new bearing cups in the heads.

I spoke to a couple of places about reprofiling them yesterday, they didn’t sound bothered about grinding them but when they learned that they didn’t have shells that were replaceable and they needed building back up before being ground they didn’t sound that keen to get involved unfortunately.

I’ve not yet done any research into bedding new cams in yet, it was a thought that popped into my mind last night.

Total cost for 4 new cams would be between £12-1400 I believe. A new oil pump is only £160 so am considering fitting one of them whilst I’m in there.

David. 2002 4.6 Vogue SE - Alveston Red with Lightstone Leather
2007 Range Rover Supercharged in Java Black with Ivory Leather
2012 Range Rover 4.4 TDV8 Autobiography in Baltic Blue with Sand Interior

Post #631169 10th May 2022 10:28am
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Gsxr1250dave



Member Since: 20 Oct 2018
Location: London
Posts: 722

England 

Have you considered Kent cams for new made in house replacements ?

Post #631180 10th May 2022 11:48am
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dhallworth



Member Since: 10 Oct 2011
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 2042

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Autobiography TDV8 Baltic Blue

Just off the phone to Kent Cams.

He reckons grinding mine down in a non starter as you can't put shells in the bearings in the heads.

Again, he said that building mine up and grinding them down was a non starter.

To customer make them I'd be looking at around 600 quid per cam and a 12 week lead time. 4 cams would be £2,500 by the time they've been done and shipped.

So it looks like the only option really is Land Rover cams unfortunately.

David. 2002 4.6 Vogue SE - Alveston Red with Lightstone Leather
2007 Range Rover Supercharged in Java Black with Ivory Leather
2012 Range Rover 4.4 TDV8 Autobiography in Baltic Blue with Sand Interior

Post #631188 10th May 2022 1:22pm
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Danwilderspin



Member Since: 15 Jun 2016
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 2074

United Kingdom 2007 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.2 SC V8 Zermatt Silver

These look clean maybe worth a look or more photos?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/302324691895?mk...media=COPY Current stable:
2006 BMW M6
2007 4.2 V8 S/C FF
Gone:
2002 4.4 V8 FF

Post #631246 10th May 2022 11:49pm
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dhallworth



Member Since: 10 Oct 2011
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 2042

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Autobiography TDV8 Baltic Blue

I saw those last night, they’re probably the best of the ones on eBay.

I’ve sourced the obsolete one in the US and am waiting for them to confirm shipping costs. Once they’ve done that I’m going to order 4 brand new ones and be done with it.

Done so much to this thing now I might as well finish it right Laughing

New heads, new valves, new cams and new gaskets on everything should make it run quite nicely. 🤞

David. 2002 4.6 Vogue SE - Alveston Red with Lightstone Leather
2007 Range Rover Supercharged in Java Black with Ivory Leather
2012 Range Rover 4.4 TDV8 Autobiography in Baltic Blue with Sand Interior

Post #631247 11th May 2022 12:06am
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Merchy



Member Since: 14 Feb 2021
Location: North Wales
Posts: 791

United Kingdom 2006 Range Rover Vogue Td6 Zermatt Silver

Looking at the photographs of the camshafts, personally I would DEFINITELY fit a new oil pump, that would vastly reduce the risk of the same happening again.

Looking again at the pics, as you have gone this far, it may be a good idea to drop the engine sump pan and remove a couple of crankshaft bearing shells and bottom ends to check the condition, before you rebuild the top end. Having said that, on your engine, I have no idea how easy / hard this would be. Not wishing to be a doom merchant, but it crossed my mind looking at the camshaft journals in the pics

Excellent thread Sir Bow down Thumbs Up

Post #631255 11th May 2022 7:08am
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Danwilderspin



Member Since: 15 Jun 2016
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 2074

United Kingdom 2007 Range Rover Vogue SE 4.2 SC V8 Zermatt Silver

Good point you won’t want to sell that for a long while after doing all that!

Merchy raises a good point have you dropped the sump pan at least to see if there’s any debris in there? I know on my BMW the early ones are prone to big end bearing failure I know that’s a more finely tuned engine but worth checking for debris at least Current stable:
2006 BMW M6
2007 4.2 V8 S/C FF
Gone:
2002 4.4 V8 FF

Post #631256 11th May 2022 7:13am
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dhallworth



Member Since: 10 Oct 2011
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 2042

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Autobiography TDV8 Baltic Blue

I've been pondering the idea of the oil pump swap but to do it you need to remove the sump and to remove the sump you need to remove the engine from the car.

I need to draw a line somewhere and start reassembly! It's been in bits since 13th February! Laughing

After looking in far more detail at the heads and bearing caps last night, I'm amazed that the scoring and bruising only seems to be on the cams rather than on the bearings. With them being much softer, I am amazed.

Still pondering the idea of going further or not.

David. 2002 4.6 Vogue SE - Alveston Red with Lightstone Leather
2007 Range Rover Supercharged in Java Black with Ivory Leather
2012 Range Rover 4.4 TDV8 Autobiography in Baltic Blue with Sand Interior

Post #631306 11th May 2022 2:02pm
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