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JayGee



Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 2751

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey

Pay per mile / use is on the way for all road users not just Londoners so this is not news. You are already being tracked by so many ways you don't even know about. Current income schemes for road users from fuel duty, road tax etc are crude and outdated and need replacing. 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Post #664273 16th May 2023 5:18pm
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JMC



Member Since: 01 Feb 2009
Location: Aberdeen-Angus
Posts: 723

Scotland 2012 Range Rover Westminster TDV8 Orkney Grey

I'm looking forward to seeing my 500bhp GpB rally car from the early 1980's being exempt from all these LEZ's.....

Apparently, if they don't need to pay road tax or have an MoT and they are over 40 years old, you can drive freely in the zones!! Mr. Green Whistle

 The older I get, the more I realise that people confuse wrinkles for wisdom Smile

Post #664275 16th May 2023 6:02pm
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Bill



Member Since: 18 Nov 2017
Location: Essex / Normandy
Posts: 1174

United Kingdom 

Merchy wrote:
This is not conspiracy theory stuff, but watch the video on the link below for Khan's future plans, this is not rumour, sni- snip snip it's scary to think about what Khan will want next.



I’m far to old to pick another fight, my brain works, but not as it did when I was 40…

This is a loooooooong vid , IMHO the guy is a little off beat at times, balls , is not a sufficient answer, but he has a message, maybe worth your time , especially if you can condense his argument.

C4- cities… that’s news to me ..Suffice to say Ken livingstone started it and includes the mad mayor of Paris. Wiki

Last bit… I can recall a dinner meeting when a top man from Ford was a speaker, he told us the government had told the car industry that afternoon, to leave space for a little black box in the car. That was about 25 years ago. Now some sort ( can’t recall) of magic box came on line /activated and all new cars have to have it this year ..

JayGee is right, road pricing by the mile is on the way, but some of the other stuff may bother some. Filters are in fact so good that in certain circumstances, when the ambient air is already polluted, a diesel car will tend to extract more particles from the air than it emits. Emissions Analytics worked with........etc etc

He who dies with the most toys wins...

Post #664280 16th May 2023 7:45pm
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SamThomas



Member Since: 12 Nov 2021
Location: South East
Posts: 293

United Kingdom 2003 Range Rover Vogue Td6 Baltic Blue

Philip wrote:

It’s won’t reduce pollution by any meaningful degree (see the impact assessment), and normal replacement of the vehicle fleet means its proposed format will be entirely irrelevant in about three years.


Exactly natural vehicle replacement would achieve virtually the same thing.

Philip wrote:

Maybe there’s another reason to spend hundreds of millions of pounds to install and run a London-wide ANPR network?


It can only be to raise revenue.

Post #664288 16th May 2023 9:12pm
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SamThomas



Member Since: 12 Nov 2021
Location: South East
Posts: 293

United Kingdom 2003 Range Rover Vogue Td6 Baltic Blue

pcourtney wrote:
they should be tackling the shocking toxic air levels in the tube system, that is probably killing more people every year than at street level - especially those that commute 1 hour in the morning and 1 hour back, absolutely incredible that TfL can get away with such double standards Sad


Far easier to blame road transport & raise some useful revenue in the process.

Of course, there is no way TfL will admit to toxic air within the confines of their own tunnels.

Post #664289 16th May 2023 9:15pm
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Red Hot one



Member Since: 09 Dec 2018
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 154

United Kingdom 2009 Range Rover Vogue TDV8 Stornoway Grey

If they were really that worried about the air quality they would ban any engine over one litre capacity.

Post #664295 16th May 2023 9:49pm
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Gremlin500



Member Since: 11 Mar 2022
Location: Newcastle, UK
Posts: 1222

United Kingdom 2017 Range Rover Vogue TDV6 Corris Grey

Which engine pollutes more?
A one litre engine doing 18,000 miles a year, or a 3 litre one doing 4K a year?
Its not only what you’ve got, it’s how much you use it……… “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” -where’s the fun in that?

Post #664298 16th May 2023 10:02pm
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Philip



Member Since: 05 Jan 2010
Location: UK
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2019 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Aintree Green

JayGee wrote:
Philip wrote:
The earlier zones weren’t beneficial either, they have just taken the credit for the normal replacement of vehicles by less polluting ones, bus fleet finally cleaned up etc.

Can you point me to the data that supports this claim please


It’s all out there. The one thing to take with a very large pinch of salt is the confused, biased, self-congratulatory nonsense the Mayor’s office put out.

Post #664301 16th May 2023 10:36pm
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JayGee



Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 2751

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Saying ULEZ has had no impact on air quality/ pollution reduction over projected reductions from normal vehicle renewal is one such claim. 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Post #664309 17th May 2023 6:55am
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supershuttle



Member Since: 20 Mar 2011
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 3655

England 2013 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Luxor

All this reminds me of the days I helped set up the congestion charge for Boris (back in the day) it was amazingly successful, so much so that the traffic into the city reduced significantly, it caused alarm in County Hall because they took less money - so they put the price up "simples" as they had got used to the income. I'm beginning to suspect ULEZ is an easy way to tax motorists to help keep London running obviously it's all GREENWASHED just like the VED on Range Rovers with the diesel engines we were encouraged to buy. (not Range Rovers but Diesel engines) Geoff

Post #664317 17th May 2023 8:26am
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Philip



Member Since: 05 Jan 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 2523

2019 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Aintree Green

JayGee wrote:
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Saying ULEZ has had no impact on air quality/ pollution reduction over projected reductions from normal vehicle renewal is one such claim.


My point relates to private cars. There’s an enormous amount of independent info out there; take NOx - look at this (pre-ULEZ) graph and tell me that ULEZ taxing private cars has made all the difference in London:



The Mayor’s office pretends that preventing a fraction of the total number of cars entering the original zone had a wildly unrealistic impact on levels of pollution - claims like 13,500 polluting cars not entering the zone meant pollution had dropped by a third, clearly nonsense when banning every single car wouldn’t have that impact.

Post #664329 17th May 2023 11:14am
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JayGee



Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 2751

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey

You didn't mention 'private cars' earlier. Commercial vehicles are subject to ULEZ and in London were a major source of pollution. Not sure you can derive anything from an 8 year old graph with no provenance.
If the ULEZ is such a big con it surely must be easy enough to post a link to the unbiased and independent data you are basing this claim on? We could all then get together and take the mayor to court for the biggest misuse of public funds since Shirley Porter. 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Post #664334 17th May 2023 11:39am
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Philip



Member Since: 05 Jan 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 2523

2019 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Aintree Green

As I said, there’s a huge amount of
information out there, most of it vastly more credible than the twaddle peddled by Khan’s PR department. You’re free to believe what you want to, but targeting private cars in London is extraordinarily cynical.

Post #664335 17th May 2023 12:01pm
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JayGee



Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 2751

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey

I'm sure there is a huge amount of information out there and I wouldn't treat any PR dept output as fact but can't you just provide one credible link to back up your claim that ULEZ has had no effect on pollution? Targeting private cars would indeed be very cynical but ULEZ applies to commercial vehicles as well. You may not like the ULEZ charge or it's implementation or the mayor (for whatever reason) but saying it doesn't reduce pollution is quiet a claim. 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Post #664341 17th May 2023 1:24pm
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Philip



Member Since: 05 Jan 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 2523

2019 Range Rover Autobiography SDV8 Aintree Green

It’s not about one “credible link (of which a quick Google will find an enormous amount of)”, the simple numbers involved tell us that ULEZ’s impact on private car use cannot have had the effects claimed - in the current zones or the upcoming extension (as the independent impact assessment confirms).

Post #664344 17th May 2023 1:59pm
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