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MikeyB48



Member Since: 10 Jan 2023
Location: UK
Posts: 10

United Kingdom 
Winter set up.. AT vs winter tyre vs all season

Hi guys, picked up my first L322 (2011 4.4 tdv8) a month or so ago and absolutely loving it.
I’m looking to sort some new tyres for it.
I have 3 main uses -
1. long commutes between Cumbria and Somerset (250 miles motorway, 50 miles v rural a+b roads) 2-3 times a month at all times of year
2. Day to day driving, mostly rural a + b roads (often greasy, muddy etc)
3. Greenlaning (fairly regularly) / exploring french equivalent whilst on hols probs once per year

I’m leaning towards 2 sets of wheels and tyres. It currently has 19” alloys and 255/5519 tyres. I’m aware that a lot of users run 255/55r20 to get a bit more ground clearance.

So.. I’d have the 19” alloys with some Pirelli all season tyres (of which there seems to be a million different options all called similar things..!) for majority of use, getting good mpg and road performance most of the year.
Where my experience starts to run out is winter rubber for this sort of car. Would a GG AT3 in 255/55r20 be a good choice for winter road use, and year round rural/Greenlane use? Or would it be better going to a bespoke winter tyre due to the high monthly commuting mileage? Or are modern premium all season tyres good for year round/light off road use?


Any and all experience/guidance welcome.

Post #671224 15th Aug 2023 8:38pm
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Martin2



Member Since: 15 Jun 2020
Location: Northamptonshire
Posts: 719

England 

Mine was brilliant in snow and more normal winter conditions running on Pirelli All Season tyres, it’s the first car I’ve had in years where I didn’t even consider a set of winter wheels/tyres.

This is the worst conditions I experienced, so not horrendous, but it coped so easily.

 MY23 Panamera E-Hybrid
MY19 SDV8 Autobiography - Sold

Post #671225 15th Aug 2023 8:55pm
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Proftinkerpot



Member Since: 23 Dec 2022
Location: County Antrim
Posts: 163

Northern Ireland 

Everyone says the Pirelli Scorpion Verde is an excellent all round tyre. Others seem to go for more off road focused rubber such as the AT3. There arexalso things like the Falken Wildpeak which are a genuine 3 peaks marked tyre suitable for continental use where winter tyres are mandatory.
I'm on Scorpion Verdes and they are very good but I only got my L322 in January and have not experienced snow as yet so I can't comment knowledgeably. There are lots of interesting tyre threads on here. Also watch you tube video by Sam's Motor and machine on his move to Cooper AT tyres which he loves.

Post #671229 15th Aug 2023 9:50pm
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Alistair



Member Since: 11 Feb 2011
Location: Peterborough / Bordeaux / Andorra
Posts: 7797

United Kingdom 2013 Range Rover Vogue SE SDV8 Santorini Black

I live in a ski resort (colder than the England) in winter and spend my summers in warmer places - so I run dedicated winter & summer sets. However, in England, I'd probably just buy a decent set of all seasons these days.

Most people confuse winter tyres with AT type treads - and are missing the point. As an example, I compared winter and regular Continentals here - they actually look surprisingly similar but behave very differently.

AT's are an advantage in muddy conditions or fresh snow, but generally not compacted snow, ice or damp cold roads (like a UK winter).

Post #671236 15th Aug 2023 10:03pm
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GraemeS



Member Since: 07 Mar 2015
Location: Wagga area
Posts: 2316

Australia 2012 Range Rover Autobiography TDV8 Bournville

Have you considered using your 19" rims for AT or winter tyres and use 20" for general driving tyres once the current 19" tyres wear out? 255/60R19 are 31", the same diameter as 255/55R20 but the slightly taller 19" sidewalls would be better for the sloppy stuff and the shorter 20" sidewalls better for higher speeds.

I don't encounter winter tyre conditions, instead mainly rural sealed and unsealed roads so have fitted 255/60R19 AT3 as my only set. 255/60R19 AT tyres can have the higher LI 113 load rating which may be of benefit off-road, which I wanted for my use.

Post #671239 15th Aug 2023 10:21pm
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Ennoch



Member Since: 26 Dec 2015
Location: Scotland
Posts: 109

My experience on various cars (Fronteras/L322/Troopers and a rogue Hilux) in the past is that all terrains are fine for pottering about in bad conditions, and absolutely fine in deep snow. However, on icy roads, they're no better than summer tyres while proper winters can allow you to take absolute liberties in horrendous conditions. My 2c is that a set of good winters will be by far and away the best choice if you drive in winter conditions a lot of the time, and by that I include frosty and icy early morning and late night roads. The ability of a winter tyre to keep control on an icy road is quite incredible the first time you experience it, it's like things happen in slow motion. Whether this is slow enough for you to regain control comes down to how much space you have, the vehicle and your talent, but even with wildly inappropriate cars I've never been stuck with winters on.

In contrast I've seen many appropriate cars stuck because they've not fitted adequate tyres. The cairngorm ski centre is hardly wild conditions these days even in deep snow (they don't open the road these days if there's so much as a dusting, sadly) but I've still seen proper 4x4's spinning their wheels trying to get out of a space, even on worn all seasons. However, unless you're really driving in these conditions regularly a set of all seasons is probably a better bet for the average person in the UK. What's worth bearing in mind though is that the tread depth on all seasons is quite a bit less than all terrains, and that the rubber on them is likely to wear more quickly. Factor in that decent all seasons are more expensive than the average all terrain and you're probably looking at twice the cost per mile for them, and probably 3x the cost per mile for full blown winters. Personally when I finally get back into an L322 I'll be going for all seasons for summer and winters for winter, but I tend to go out in the snow when there are red weather warnings, and I do tend to push on in summer. As such the AT's, no matter how much I like their looks, just don't tick the boxes for me. But, for some who do more mud and grass, and less ice, they're probably still a perfectly adequate choice for 99% of driving conditions.

Post #671247 15th Aug 2023 11:09pm
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JayGee



Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 2767

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey

'Summer' tyres start to loose grip below 7deg C so in the UK all-season tyres are a sensible choice for year round use even if you never see snow. 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Post #671253 16th Aug 2023 7:07am
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Dixy



Member Since: 09 Apr 2009
Location: Somerset
Posts: 1075

2016 Range Rover Vogue SDV8 Loire Blue

You can pick up a second set of rims quite cheaply, as long as you keep the car long enough having 2 sets of tyres is no more expensive and the difference bellow 7 degrees is astonishing.

 letters not necessarily in the right order

Post #671256 16th Aug 2023 8:08am
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Post #671262 16th Aug 2023 8:49am
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MikeyB48



Member Since: 10 Jan 2023
Location: UK
Posts: 10

United Kingdom 

Thanks one and all for such detailed and quick responses. What a great forum!
I think I’m narrowing down on Pirelli scorpion all season SF2 tyres on the 19” rims for year round use. They seem like a really good, up to date compromise between a 3pmsf all season that can be used year round.
In time I’ll get another set of rims for some AT tyres which I can chuck on for rougher stuff.

Post #671271 16th Aug 2023 9:59am
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Westminster



Member Since: 23 Mar 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 129

United Kingdom 

Great car you've got yourself, I had the same vehicle and fitted Goodyear Wrangler Duratracs which I've also had on my L405 for 3 years and they save the need for different summer/winter sets of wheels.

They are a brilliant all round tyre, good dry and wet grip, never aquaplane due to deep big tread, great in ice and snow, more aggressive tread than AT so better in muddy fields where an AT will quickly fill with mud and become useless and although they do make a little more noise at motorway speeds I've done 1000s of miles on the motorway with no problems whatsoever.

The only downside is the speed rating is 99mph but I didn't want to exceed that anyway as you risk your licence!

I'd consider them and your real need for 2 sets of wheels.

They also make the vehicle look more purposeful than normal road tyres.

Click image to enlarge

Post #671273 16th Aug 2023 10:15am
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Ennoch



Member Since: 26 Dec 2015
Location: Scotland
Posts: 109

JayGee wrote:
'Summer' tyres start to loose grip below 7deg C so in the UK all-season tyres are a sensible choice for year round use even if you never see snow.


I feel like I'm disagreeing for the sake of being awkward here, but I'm not. Honest! My experience is that cheap tyres do have quite a high cutover temperature, but that any decent performance tyre like Michelin, Good Year or Conti (Pirelli are crap in the wet even when warm) will have enough silica and other expensive additives in there to give them really good grip, even on cold and damp roads when compared to almost all winters. IME I've found the crossover to be around the 1-2c mark when comparing a UHP summer with a HP winter, but when it's frosty etc then that goes out the window. Some people use this as an argument to say that winter tyres are a bad idea, but it's much easier to drive around a little less grip when there's lots of it around and visibility and conditions are good, than it is to drive around a lot less grip when there's already lots less of it around.

In general though I agree, although I tend to hold off changing my wheels over until I see the first signs of frost forecast or I'm heading into areas where it's already forecast, and then leave them on until all traces of overnight frost have gone. It's surprising how late in the year you still get road surfaces cold enough to ice or frost over. I've driven up to Fort William at 3am to go ice climbing on the Ben before in May with a friend who had thought it safe to remove the winters from his RWD AMG. Suffice to say no speed records were broken that morning! It's funny how some people can be so oblivious to road conditions just because they don't normally see them, and then extrapolate that out to a blunt 'nobody needs it/them'.

Post #671274 16th Aug 2023 11:05am
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JayGee



Member Since: 27 Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 2767

United Kingdom 2012 Range Rover Vogue 4.4 V8 Orkney Grey

Interesting. Always run premium rubber (Goodyear F1 Asymmetrical) year round on previous cars and only once used a set of winter tyres when I had to actually drive in snow and they did the job superbly. Not seen any other obvious choices for L322 sized tyres from other manufacturers that make me want to fit an alternative to the Pirelli's for year round use. 2012 TDV8 Vogue (L322)

Post #671276 16th Aug 2023 11:46am
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Ennoch



Member Since: 26 Dec 2015
Location: Scotland
Posts: 109

@JayGee Oh, I was referring to UHP rather than A/S or SUV Pirelli's (I'm great at going OT). The A/S Pirelli's seem to be a lot better, and I used to really like their Sottozero 3's on the Impreza, less so as RFT's on the BMW but they were still decent. Something about the compound that they use on the P-Zero's (of all versions) just doesn't seem to work in the average British condition, even when various tyre tests from the likes of Tyre Reviews and Auto Bild rave about them. Nothing in my experience comes close to the all round ability of Michelins for performance in UHP tyres, regardless of how they rate in reviews. Whether it's my driving style, vehicles or the roads I'm on most, Michelin are outstanding, Good Year are still pretty decent (got them on the Impreza currently as only the much softer side walled PS4 was available in 17", not the better PS4S), Continental reasonable (but seem to wear quicker than Michelin/GY for similar performance) and Pirelli just feel poor on damp roads while not giving much feedback when pushing on in the dry either.

Obviously this doesn't seem to translate to the tyres on the L322 as the Pirelli's seem to be the best all round option. I've certainly been impressed with the Scorpion AS on the summer wheels that we fitted to my dad's Evoque compared to the Conti CrossContacts that were on there; quieter, better riding and more confidence inspiring. The UltraGrip Performance+ winters have been outstanding too, they're definitely a cut above the much older design of the Sottozero 3 (same pattern as the original Scorpion Winter) which I've had multiple sets of. They are soft compound though so I couldn't see getting more than 10k out of them on the heavier L322. Probably worth it for me though.

Post #671286 16th Aug 2023 1:10pm
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MikeyB48



Member Since: 10 Jan 2023
Location: UK
Posts: 10

United Kingdom 

Ennoch, have you any experience with the Pirelli scorpion all season SF2 tyres? Your last point re longevity has just made me wonder how many miles I can expect to get out of them.. I’d probably be looking at well over 10k per year and spending near £800 every 10-12 months on tyres is not going to fly with the other half!

Post #671316 16th Aug 2023 7:07pm
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