To stop us hijacking another thread

http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic14532.html

I decided to start another one regarding modifying the ecu for the TD6 gearbox.

http://www.ecotuning-automatic.de/index.html

Is the site I am referring to.
I contacted the Eduard Klukas on the site and he says he can supply me a unit to New Zealand for Euros 220 including p & p

Also for reference

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40638

Can anyone in simple plain english write an explanation of what the ecotuning modification does and it benefits/disadvantages for a TD6 owner.

Thanks
Adrian VW Amarok 2014 Highline auto

Last edited by ahebron on 10th Dec 2012 4:48am. Edited 1 time in total

Thanks, ahebron. I was thinking of doing this myself.

As i see it the basic pros for this mod are;

reduced torque converter slip. In a normal td6 the Tc slips under load in every gear until 5th, I believe it locks to 80% after 35mph. But this was designed to improve the comfort but results in a rubber band like acceleration.
Improved gearbox life because of the tc wont be essential eating its self. This will also reduce the temp of the gearbox.
Better fuel efficiency, as its not slipping the tc.


The tc will still slip under 35 but will be 100% locked in 4th AND 5th, I am unsure if the gearbox will change up earlier, which would be nice as i would really like to be changing at around 2000 and in 5th by 50mph. I may write and ask him this but i can barely write in English let alone German.

This mod with increased line pressure and a sonnax mod should see a reliable box once and for all.

You can disable this mod, whilst stationary, by selecting sport and back to drive. So i don't see any disadvantages to this mod, other than the downtime it takes to send the tcm to him.

Ahhh so its not a unit sent to you and a unit sent back jobby??

I thought this may be the case in which case fining a cheap unit somewhere would be good to help keep off road time to e minimum(ie non moving!)

Buy I would prefer 3rd gear lockup as well if they can offer it... FFRR MY06 facelift With TDV8 Alloys Zeros/ATR's
Mantec Sump Guard, Rigid Load liner, MY10 BT upgrade.

It may be because I live in NZ it is easier for them to send me a complete unit. Otherwise my car would be out of action for too long. If you are UK based then I assume it would be send them yours and they modify it and send it back.

It looks like you guys have a few questions to ask him then. Please post with responses
Adrian VW Amarok 2014 Highline auto

Would be interesting to hear from somebody with the Mod done already?

If I get a chance i'll ask if they do an exchange service and when i get paid if i have enough left after xmas stuff and holidays then i'll give it a whirl  FFRR MY06 facelift With TDV8 Alloys Zeros/ATR's
Mantec Sump Guard, Rigid Load liner, MY10 BT upgrade.

I did 130 euro for the mod 150 euro bond on exchange unit orded mine today

Good man Spanner
We all await your opinion.

Adrian VW Amarok 2014 Highline auto

ahebron wrote:

Can anyone in simple plain english write an explanation of what the ecotuning modification does and it benefits/disadvantages for a TD6 owner.

Thanks
Adrian

OK, I had a look through the site today. Some very interesting stuff - and possibly a good idea or two as well as a substantiation of what we have been saying about these transmissions. I've PM'd RRPhil as resident automatic transmission guru to see if he'd like to chime in here and make a qualified judgment.

Here a google translation with mild 'English-tuning' to make it more understandable:

Does ECO-tuning harm my gearbox?
Absolutely not. I change nothing on the transmission, I only change the already existing (TCC) lock-up point down to about 50 km / h, so, I repeat, does already existing function converter lockup earlier. I make no changes to the transmission shift logic. The switching operations like Fast Kick, kick-down, etc. are still there. In addition, the TCC opens briefly at each gear change and opens fully at Kick Fast and kickdown to use the multiplication effect of the torque converter. Think about it yourself: Standard TCC (lock-up) is at about 100-110km / h where the power is highest, why should then lock-up from about 50km / h damage the gearbox? Quite the contrary: The abrasion in the transmission is reduced, the heat lowered (open torque converter is a source of heat in the gearbox), the speeds and noise levels go back etc.

So what he does is change when TCC lock-up occurs (I also discovered that he apparently changes how lock-up occurs - much more quickly with less slip. See last paragraphs in post).

I am not sure what to think about this - above all I can imagine that adverse effects on driving characteristics are much greater in the heavy RR than in a relatively light BMW.

In general when 'chip-tuning' or 'remapping' is done on an engine, the compromises engineers make during development are shifted: longevity of the engine and or pollution control devices, comfort (engine characteristics), fuel consumption, emissions, etc. are all affected. In some cases, the compromises made during development can all be tweaked with nearly no negative consequences as the motors were delivered in a very conservative 'state of tune' - such as with the M57D (TD6) motor. In other cases, the negative consequences are very real and very noticeable - such as with the TD6 predecessor, the P38 DSE. The M51D motor in these RRs suffered from cracked cyl. heads and emitted noticeable soot on hard acceleration when 'chipped'. My point is, though, that you can not expect only dramatic upsides from something like this. As a TD6 owner, I know how much the heavy RR benefits from the torque multiplication effects of the TC during acceleration. The Eco-Tuning people argue that the TCC locks-up at 100-110kmh "where the power is highest". Without having thought about this in detail before, I would venture to guess that exactly the opposite is true. First, diesels make lots of low-end torque and at 50kmh the TD6 is prob somewhere close to peak-torque (and torque not power puts strain on the TC). Second, in 95+% of all cases acceleration is all but completed at 100kmh and the torque being put through the TC is relatively low (unless you are accelerating on to a motorway and are very ambitioned about reaching speed quickly). This means that the TCC has little torque to overcome upon lock-up and hence slips only a short time. At 50kmh I would guess that this would be the opposite - so that wear on the TCC could actually be increased. I hope RRPhil will chime in here and correct me if I am wrong...

And I will be extremely curious to hear what spanner has to say.

The one thing that I did discover that I thought was very interesting: many have described one symptom of the transmission failing is a rumbling or vibration. This seems to be 'chatter' of the TCC.

He writes:

My BMW E39/E46 diesel hums significantly in certain speed ranges, and a drop in engine speed of about 50 rpm can be noted on the tachometer. What is this?
It is the effect of the changing frictional resistance of the wearing converter lockup clutch. The engineers who have made the gearox and software have not thought far enough, because the coefficient of friction varies with age, stress, mileage of the oil. All four factors together provide a modified coefficient of friction which causes "chatter" of the clutch. This also includes not clean disengagement and engagement. This process is called "TCC vibration" and creates a pervasive, perceptible signal that the TCC must be replaced soon. It feels as if one crosses the boundary line of the roadway. By the modification of the transmission control unit the use of the converter clutch can be varied and almost arbitrarily defined. I close the clutch firmly and without slippage or slides - there should be no more vibrations previously reminiscent of a gearbox failure.

This would seem to indicate that TCC wear would be greatly reduced. This does seem plausible to me - but maybe it is just wishful thinking.  
RRC 2Dr, RRC 4Dr,
P38, and 2 L322s
(wife thinks I'm nuts - prob right, too)

This all looks very interesting, so I've bitten the bullet and sent the money (280 Euros). This apparently includes 150 Euros for a refundable surcharge on my original ECU. I'll report back on progress (so fingers crossed).

Colin

the problem IME is that at 50kmh-100kmh the TCC and box will slip and sometimes change down without much power being applied, to get the speed up. Ideally if it would lock in 5th just about 30mph the torque would be a good way to pickup speed and save some fuel. instead it would actually be in 4th and has often changed down to 3rd to pickup enough. The TD6 takes VERY gentle ideas towards acceleration upto the legal limit/100kmh.

Flicking to commandshift i force into 5th at about 35mph. then gently feather the throttle upto the speed i need if not already there. Otherwise just over 40ish will be normal kickin but then the TC doesnt lockup so as soon as an incline hits and the revs drop it slips again to bring the revs vs actual speed ratio up and multiply the torque. IMO this isn't needed as the TD6 has enough low down grunt to cope.

It would be fun to compare a manual vs auto version in an L322 but its not possible.

As you've said on another topic. Getting the ZF 6 speed box in with some mod box would be the most ideal option available especially more for those that use their on a motorway a lot of towing  FFRR MY06 facelift With TDV8 Alloys Zeros/ATR's
Mantec Sump Guard, Rigid Load liner, MY10 BT upgrade.

Does anyone know of a similar service for the ZF gearboxes ??? I wouldn't mind sending my transmission ECU for an update that makes it better  MY 2010 5.0 SC Galway green and sand interior!!
Have the Faultmate MSV2 Extreme to be tinkering with the settings etc. !!

Clearly the car manufacturers know that torque converters are highly inefficient and their use wastes fuel.

Click image to enlarge

Click image to enlarge

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RRPhil, I am wandering if you can shine some light on a question i have. On the GM5L40 can you increase the line preassure by a simple mod to the calibration screw on the main pressure valve?



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I belive that is the screw.

Your red arrow seems to be pointing to the feed limit valve

Click image to enlarge

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