AJGalaxy2012 wrote:

Martin2 wrote:

Why is it flawed?

you quoted a current rate of 27p which doesnt seem to appear on any current Octopus tariff

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Imho of course, but it’s less flawed than one quoting 7.5p per mile while ignoring the other 20 hours a day!

Why would you want to charge 24 hours?

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I went on the Octopus website, entered my postcode and used what they offered and compared it to the current rate I’m on (std variable tariff)….so that’s a true like for like co parison surely?

Only if you got todays price for the same tariff which I dont believe you did. You need to compare current pricing for both tariffs to make a meaningful comparison and GO is not more expensive on peak than other tariffs which you wrongly claim.

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The rates are very similar to what you’ve quoted too, I could run the dishwasher overnight and I guess the washing machine but that’s it.

No immersion heater?

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I don’t have solar…yet.

Then youre losing out big time.

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So, for me (and many others), my calculations are fairly sound.

Non so blind as them that dont want to see

That’s a lot….and I sense you’re being obtuse on purpose…..

My current tariff with EDF is 27p, which is their std variable, so it’s MY baseline for any comparison

No, not charge for 20 hours, but I would probably need to charge for 8-10 hours several days a week and that’s on top of my normal usage…which would mainly be outside the 4 hour cheap period.

The prices I quoted from Octopus were what they gave me when I went on their website and entered my postcode, so the only ones I could use for comparison. Why do they advertise higher rates when tempting new customers in?!

I have an immersion heater, but it’s switched off and I use gas. No idea if that’s more or less expensive than using gas on my current tariffs, but not really bothered. Assume it is on 7.5p but I go back to my 27p vs 39p point….

I may be in the long term, but until there is a less ugly solution (solar tiles?) that’s cost effective or the efficiency improves (or prices go a lot higher) so the payback is better to make it worth it, I’m holding off.

You are spot on, it’s a common affliction of the EV evangelist!! Seriously…..I’ve not criticised anyone for making the choice to switch to EV, just questioned some of the financial comparisons, there really is no need to get so defensive.

I can see the benefit of EVs, but cars for me are a passion and always have been, not just a way of getting from A to B cheaply. I just can’t get excited about any current EV, even the really quick ones. It may save a few £ in running costs, but so would buying a small diesel hatchback…. YOLO and all that. MY23 Panamera E-Hybrid
MY19 SDV8 Autobiography - Sold

EVs are surprisingly fun, even our little Zoe. The BMW i3 is an absolute hoot. I agree though, I can't see us switching to two EVs anytime soon. The Zoe does the donkey work, and an ICE is around for when we need more space and long runs 4 up etc.

I'd love to replace my ICE with something more fun - though I love the VRS. But until the kids are out of the picture we need the practicality. 2016 Skoda Octavia VRS Estate
<gone>2009 FF Vogue TDV8 Buckingham Blue</gone>
<gone>2015 BMW 520D SE (not my favourite car)</gone>
<gone>2009 D3 HSE Galway Green</gone>

TJH1985 wrote:

AJGalaxy2012 wrote:

Martin2 wrote:

Quote:

I don’t have solar…yet.

Then youre losing out big time.

I’d be interested in your experience with them, I thought the pay back on solar was very unlikely to happen within the often quoted 5-7 years since the end of the old feed in tariffs, and often only just within the lifetime of the kit.

I work with a few guys who track it obsessively one even has batteries and neither are seeing savings and admit they only have them to “do the right thing”.

Our house is south facing, so seems like a no brainier but so far most people have put me off them, suggesting waiting until the tech improves.

Martin2 wrote:

That’s a lot….and I sense you’re being obtuse on purpose…..

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My current tariff with EDF is 27p, which is their std variable, so it’s MY baseline for any comparison

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No, not charge for 20 hours, but I would probably need to charge for 8-10 hours several days a week and that’s on top of my normal usage…which would mainly be outside the 4 hour cheap period.

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The prices I quoted from Octopus were what they gave me when I went on their website and entered my postcode, so the only ones I could use for comparison. Why do they advertise higher rates when tempting new customers in?!

Maybe they didnt want you

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I have an immersion heater, but it’s switched off and I use gas. No idea if that’s more or less expensive than using gas on my current tariffs, but not really bothered. Assume it is on 7.5p but I go back to my 27p vs 39p point….

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I may be in the long term, but until there is a less ugly solution (solar tiles?) that’s cost effective or the efficiency improves (or prices go a lot higher) so the payback is better to make it worth it, I’m holding off.

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You are spot on, it’s a common affliction of the EV evangelist!! Seriously…..I’ve not criticised anyone for making the choice to switch to EV, just questioned some of the financial comparisons, there really is no need to get so defensive.

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I can see the benefit of EVs, but cars for me are a passion and always have been, not just a way of getting from A to B cheaply. I just can’t get excited about any current EV, even the really quick ones. It may save a few £ in running costs, but so would buying a small diesel hatchback…. YOLO and all that.

Personally I feel that there is a place for EV's & with the percentage rate take up the need to move completely away from fossil fuels will diminish.

It will be interesting to see what the situation will be in a few years time - when many EV's, no longer dealer serviced cascade down to 2n/3rd user ownership & the reluctance to pay dealer prices for keeping these vehicles running reliably.

We will probably see an abundance of "electromechs" who will jump onto the bandwagon without proper training &/or experience. When working on very high power DC equipment you really, really do need to know what you are doing.

As for long term reliability ? Who knows. In the last week or so I have heard at least 3 x EV's - 2 x Prius (OK, they are hybrids) & a Leaf at low speeds making awful "grindy/scrapy/bearingy" noises.
Bearings will of course eventually wear out & the cynic in me thinks that bearings will be difficult to replace (if at all) - only assemblies.

Duplicated post - sorry.

I think that the evolution of the EV market will certainly be an interesting one to watch. One youtuber worth watching for an insiders guide on the pros and cons is RichRebuilds. He has completely restored flooded and crash damaged Teslas from the ground up, repairing and rebuilding the faulty battery packs as well as converting ICE cars to electric and even a Tesla to ICE!

One of his main issues is the availability of parts and right to repair which Tesla for one are being really difficult about. Until this changes the worlds most popular EV producer is shooting themselves in the foot for a short term buck. Some of the issues are in theory easy to sort, but with the parts being blocked and the software used by manufacturers to limit or even downgrade existing car specs it is still a problematic can of worms especially for the used car market when you compare it to the ICE equivalents.

One to watch as there will be a lot of changes over the years. Tom

Current Drive
2011 4.4 TDV8 Autobiography - Santorini Black - Ivory Leather

Previous Drives
2004 Model Vogue Td6 (Touchscreen) - Java Black - Parchment Leather
1994 RR Classic 3.9 V8 Soft dash - Niagara Grey - Grey Leather
1972 Series III SWB Safari - Green (Hand Painted) - Black Plastic

As the competition between brands heats up I'm sure it will free up parts supply. All manufacturers guard their software. BMW i3 Electric Car
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

I said this WAY back on a thread about these EV gimmick cars: They'll be on dumped rusting heaps in five years, maybe (unlikely) ten at most...
The only people who will be able to afford to drive them will be the super wealthy - and that isn't us! They are a virtue-signallers chest-pumping chariot and only the VERY expensive ones will hang around, probably getting monthly upgrades just to keep them going.
So those poor, sad, five year old's in Africa (and elsewhere) who dig for the raw material for these gimmicks sometimes with their bare hands might be out of a job in a few years time. Maybe they can go to school instead...
And that's all about pretending to be saving the planet from one country with sanctimonious virtue-signalling, whilst the naughty damaging environmental bad stuff is done elsewhere hidden from view. And you'll ALWAYS need good old fashioned fossil fuels to furnace the raw materials into anything anyways!
Most with EVs beyond, say, 2023, will not be able to afford to charge them, lest service them, as the profiteering energy mobsters and the politicians who get the cream off the top send prices sky rocketing...
The biggest wealth transfer in human history took place over the past two years (coincidence?!?) and it ain't stopping anytime soon...
But we'll all be happier...
Without owning anything...


Hope this doesn't upset the EV fanboys (or funded) too much...

 Tom

Current Drive
2011 4.4 TDV8 Autobiography - Santorini Black - Ivory Leather

Previous Drives
2004 Model Vogue Td6 (Touchscreen) - Java Black - Parchment Leather
1994 RR Classic 3.9 V8 Soft dash - Niagara Grey - Grey Leather
1972 Series III SWB Safari - Green (Hand Painted) - Black Plastic

Flashman wrote:

You also have to factor in the potential cost of a replacement battery after the warranty runs out. Tesla were asking close to $20k on an out of warranty model S, which would write the car off in most cases.

No idea where you can get electricity for 7.5p per KWH.

Flashman wrote:

Wow, seemed to hit the EV fanboys raw nerves. 4 hours /.../e OP's point that costs to run an EV rising is a very real concern when comparing costs of vehicle and per mile travel.

Not just EV fanboys', regular new vehicle buyers Flashman But let's be real, the market is going electric for many positive reasons.

In your post, we see the typical popular misconceptions and stereotypes (pushed by the oil industry?). If you look into it seriously, you'll learn new techs already do not use Lithium (unlike one's laptop, iPhone, potentially, car remote, toothbrush, etc)

Anyhow, your points were relevant 3/4 years ago but all, yes all, these points have been resolved already: one can easily charge anywhere now in the UK. New tech will make it cheaper than ever to run an EV and ICEs vehicles will be naturally replaced (the price of these will collapse, not lithium battery EVS).

For info, the first loan bank has just announced they will stop loans on ICE and Hybrid cars altogether. Shows you where the market is going.

https://bankaust.com.au/about-us/why-us/ev...loans-2025 l=Oo\________/oO=l l:OolΞΞΞΞΞΞΞloO:l

Current
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L SDV8 - 2013 - Indus Silver, on Almond.
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L V8 - 2002 - ex-2003 G4 Challenge Event Vehicle, Stage 3: Australia
RANGE ROVER HSE 4.4L V8 - 2004 - one-of-one Overfinch
RANGE ROVER P38a 4.0L V8 - 1999 - ex-2000 TReK Event Vehicle: South Africa

Previous:
RANGE ROVER Vogue 4.4L TDV8 - 2012 - RANGE ROVER 3.6L TDV8 x3 - RANGE ROVER Td6 x1 - RANGE ROVER Classic 3.5L V8 x1

Less than a year ago showing Tesla not repairing packs but charging over $20k for a new pack. Sure they can be repaired but Tesla don't offer the service.



Here is Shmee taking a day to try to charge his car and just wasting his time. Ok, it was last May 2021, but not that long ago. I have seen charging points not working and cordoned off when I have been refilling my L322. I am sure this will be ironed out but I am sure it will take a few years.



Sure these are isolated, but if you cannot trust the network to have a reliable, available and fast charge when and where you need it, then it is still has a long way to go.

Maybe since last year everything has changed, but I will wait until I see it myself. I am sure some of you with EVs are lucky to have easy charging etc. But this is not the case for all the market. Tom

Current Drive
2011 4.4 TDV8 Autobiography - Santorini Black - Ivory Leather

Previous Drives
2004 Model Vogue Td6 (Touchscreen) - Java Black - Parchment Leather
1994 RR Classic 3.9 V8 Soft dash - Niagara Grey - Grey Leather
1972 Series III SWB Safari - Green (Hand Painted) - Black Plastic

So a couple of isolated cases from the millions of EV's worldwide and you deduce 'They have a long way to go'

So a handful of turbo runaways you'll be openly condemning turbo's too? There are many such video's of such occurences







A long way to go with Turbo's and theyve had years at it and still not got it right? BMW i3 Electric Car
2012 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8 (now gone)
2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi V6

Last edited by AJGalaxy2012 on 29th Aug 2022 3:06pm. Edited 1 time in total